Jenna Kepnes
Interview Highlights
Theatre can help people feel less isolated and realize that they are not the only person who has ever felt a certain way.
Women are multifaceted and can do anything we set our minds to, even if it may surprise some people.
White women are in a position of privilege from which we can amplify other people whose voices often go unheard.
We need more diverse women in positions of power in the theatre industry and the world.
Find Jenna Online:
Instagram: @jennakepnes
Jenna’s Work:
Check it out: Jenna hosted Cabaret on the Couch on February 25 and performed one of her original songs!
Bio
Jenna Kepnes (she/her) is a New York City-based actor, singer, dancer, songwriter and director. Originally from New Jersey, Jenna moved around a bit to study and work before moving to NYC to pursue a career in theatre. She graduated from the Institute for American Musical Theatre in 2020 and is currently taking classes with the Musical Theatre Writers Collective. Throughout the pandemic, Jenna performed in Quarantine: The Musical’s virtual productions of Spring Awakening (Wendla) and RENT (Maureen). She has also been seen on stage in shows such as American Idiot, Mary Poppins, Sex Education and Pippin, and in various cabaret acts around NYC. Currently, Jenna is working on her debut EP as a singer-songwriter, with plans to release it on streaming platforms later this year.
“Art is important in the world, and as artists, we’re doing something important.”
Meet Jenna
Hayley: We are here with the wonderful Jenna Kepnes. Jenna, please introduce yourself, share your pronouns, and tell us a little bit about what you do in the theatrical space.
Jenna: I’m Jenna Kepnes, my pronouns are she/her, and I am an actor, singer, songwriter, and director.
Amy: Can you tell us about how you came to your work in theatre?
Jenna: I grew up singing with my dad. He plays guitar, and we would have jam sessions in the basement. In junior high and high school, I was involved in choir, I danced, and I did all of the musicals at my school. For college, I went to the University of Connecticut, where I studied biomedical engineering and Spanish. I was happy, made great friends, and the things I was doing were interesting, but I felt like something was missing. One summer, I worked at a research internship, and I just couldn’t see myself doing that for the rest of my life.
I knew I wanted to perform, so I moved to New York to attend a musical theatre program. I worked my ass off for two years, then the pandemic hit right before I graduated. While I was going to school, I started writing my own music. It was an emotional outlet I didn’t realize I needed until I was doing it. I connected with the Musical Theatre Writers Collective to perform in some of the work that they were creating, and that’s how I met Hayley. I took a directing class this past fall semester and really loved it, then Hayley encouraged me to join the MTWC program.
Hayley: If you want to check out Jenna’s amazing music, she was the host at MTWC’s recent Cabaret on the Couch performance and she sang one of her original songs.
Jenna’s Creative Work and Creative Mission
Hayley: Jenna, what’s striking your creative fancy right now? What’s getting you excited?
Jenna: There’s so much! Two people in our MTWC cohort, Julia Sonya Koyfman and Sheridan Stevens, wrote an 8-minute song called “8:45AM SoulCycle with Kate,” which is a satire of the way society makes women see ourselves, how we have to be perfect all the time. I got to direct it with an amazing performer. It was my first project with MTWC, and it was very fulfilling and made me feel like I made the right decision and was in the right place. They’ve been talking about expanding it into a 10- or 15-minute musical, so we’ll see what happens there. I’m also really excited to dive into directing Hayley’s one-act musical that’s coming up with Chloe Geller and Julia Sonya Koyfman.
I really want to center women in whatever I do. As a society, we have such a narrow view of the female experience, so I want to show that we’re not just one thing. Any person can be so many different things at once. We’re not surprised when men are multifaceted, but when women show more than one side of themselves, we’re always shocked. So breaking that down and letting us see…
Hayley: …the complexity of women!
Amy: I love that! Would you call that your creative mission?
Jenna: It’s definitely a component of it, for sure. Also, helping people feel they’re not alone. Growing up, that’s what theatre did for me, and that’s part of why I was so inspired to go into it. I wanted to help people. When I’m writing music, I often think, if I’m feeling this way, it’s impossible that I’m the only person. These deep emotions can feel so isolating. But by putting them into my art and then putting that out into the world, hopefully someone somewhere will hear it and not feel so isolated.
Amy: That’s beautiful. I strongly relate to the feeling of wanting to do something important in life and wanting to do theatre and the intersection of those things.
Jenna: It’s so important. As artists, we can feel so minimized, as if what we’re doing is selfish or not enough, as if we’re not giving enough to the world. But I want to show that your art is enough. You as a human being are enough, and putting your heart and soul into your art then shows that to the world.
Amy: I think we all need to hear that right now.
Jenna: I think it’s something we need to keep telling each other over and over again. There are days when I don’t believe it. That’s why it’s so great to have a community of people, so we can keep reminding each other that what we’re doing is important.
Thoughts on Womanhood and Representation
Hayley: Jenna, what does being a woman mean to you?
Jenna: It’s so vast, what it means. The first thing that comes to my mind is surprise. I have a very strong sense of determination, and if I set my mind to something, I know that it’s possible. If I were a man, that would be enough to convince other people that it was possible. But because I’m a woman, when I actually follow through and do the things I set my mind to, it’s always a little bit of a surprise. I hope that because I continue to set goals and then achieve them, it’s becoming less of a surprise for the people around me.
Strength and resiliency…you’re also expected to shoulder so much more. Emotional depth and maturity and passion are brushed off a little bit for women, like “She’s overly emotional.” But there is so much power in that emotional depth, and as artists, we have an opportunity to channel that into whatever we create.
Hayley: Being a woman is such a layered thing. I think many of us feel this deep sense of community with other women, like there’s something special about our womanhood. There’s also so much we have to deal with that non-women do not have to deal with. It’s interesting to interview people in different generations and at different points in their careers. This idea that you and I have of, “I know that I can do anything, but it might be surprising”... When we talk to people who are older than us, we hear things like, “There were all these things I was told I couldn’t do.”
Amy: Yeah, it’s interesting. I’m a little bit older than you two, and I feel like I’m where you are but it’s taken me a lot longer to get there. When I was your age, I was not there. So it’s cool to see that progress over years and generations.
Jenna: I feel I have a duty to make sure that other women know they have that power and to empower other women. To normalize that women can do anything. To make sure that the next generation of women knows that, so when they get to our age, it’s not surprising.
Amy: One of our big-picture dreams is to have a world and a theatrical industry where women don’t face barriers just because they’re women. And maybe an intermediary step to that is to remove the element of surprise for young women. If they’ve heard all these stories about, “These are the barriers we’ve faced,” then when a barrier comes up for them, instead of feeling like, “Oh, I didn’t see this coming,” they can say, “This is what that woman was talking about, and I have tools that I can use to address it.”
Jenna: There’s a class I’m in right now where I’m the only woman there. I left the first class knowing that I was the odd one out. No one’s consciously making me feel that way, but it’s the implicit biases. In the room, I feel like I have to be careful with what I say. Every word out of my mouth has to be important so I’m taken seriously. I’m such a goofball and I say weird things all the time, but then I have to have this extra filter in class so that they know I’m serious about my work.
Amy: There’s this pressure on you to be the representative of all women. I think it’s a thing that people of color feel in predominantly white spaces, I think it’s a thing that LGBTQ+ people feel in heterosexual spaces. It’s this pressure of - when there’s only one of you in a space, you’re it! You are “women”!
Hayley: And then if you’re the only Black woman in a space, holding both of your communities - that’s a lot.
Amy: Yeah, it’s a lot to ask of an individual person.
Jenna: Everybody is multifaceted, so it’s impossible to represent everyone.
Amy: Exactly! Which points to the importance of having truly diverse communities, diverse in every way.
Hayley: Even in relatively diverse/multi-gendered spaces, I still feel like we have to hold down the fort sometimes.
Amy: You’re right. Diversity is a goal and diversity is not enough. It’s also important to have spaces that allow for self-reflection. Creating spaces that are SAFE for a diverse group of people, not just spaces that HAVE a diverse group of people.
Hayley: Yeah, the power imbalance still exists even if things are technically “equal.” It’s the difference between equity and equality. Things are “equal,” but because one group has been dominant for so long, we feel like we have to continuously prove ourselves. “I see you, other woman in the room, I support what you’re saying” - it's this extra effort that we have to exert.
Benefits and Limitations of Womanhood
Amy: Jenna, how do you feel that being a woman benefits you as an artist, and what limits have you pushed up against because of your gender?
Jenna: I have to be a woman in order to create the things that I want to create. If I wasn’t a woman, I don’t think that I would be in the arts. So much of my purpose in life is in being a voice for the underdog. As a white woman, I’m in a position of power in many spaces, and I want to use my privilege to help empower communities that aren’t necessarily given a voice. I don’t want to compare being a woman to being a person of color. There’s so much intersectionality at play. Every person’s experience is that of their community, but it’s also very singular. I experience various forms of sexism on a daily basis, but there are other forms of oppression that I have never and will never experience.
I think my experience facing the patriarchy on the daily has played a big part in fueling my passion for advocacy. There are so many wrongs in the world that need to be righted, and they are so much more vast than anything that I have or will experience. Being a woman is integral to that passion and experience for me. There is so much strength in being a woman in a community of women and understanding what it feels like to not be heard or valued. So when I speak to other people, I want to make sure they feel heard and valued. Being a woman goes hand in hand with that.
Amy: I don’t think I’ve heard it explained in quite that way before, the relationship between privilege and activism and power. It’s very clear and it makes perfect sense.
How to Improve the Theatre Industry
Hayley: Jenna, if you could make changes to the theatre industry, what would they be?
Jenna: We need more women - diverse women - in positions of power. The number of times I have been in a position to have a conversation with a white man who is 30 years my senior on a board of white men running whatever program or institution, and I’m acting as the sole advocate for any and all representation… And maybe I’m not actually the sole advocate in those circumstances…
Amy: But it’s set up in a way to make you feel as if you are.
Jenna: Exactly. No one should feel that way. There should be enough variety that anyone is comfortable approaching someone in a position of power. As a woman, especially now that I’m entering spaces as a director, I can then be empowered to bring more women into the room.
Another thing I want to see in theatre moving forward is color-conscious casting rather than color-blind casting. We need spaces that honor everyone’s identity and account for history and the way that different groups of people are viewed in society to make sure that we are empowering people from marginalized communities.
Amy: Jenna, for readers who may be unfamiliar, can you please tell us what the difference between color-blind and color-conscious casting means to you?
Jenna: I will do my best. I should preface this by saying that I don’t work in casting. Color-blind casting would be saying that we are casting the most talented person in a role, “regardless” of their race or anything else. For example, in the 2018 revival of Carousel, Joshua Henry played Billy and Jessie Mueller played Julie. They were both very talented and phenomenal in those roles. But because you’re not acknowledging either person’s race, we get this Black man and white woman in a relationship where the man is beating his wife, and that is perpetuating a harmful stereotype. That’s not to say that Joshua Henry or any person of color can’t play Billy Bigelow. It’s just to say that they could have thought a little more about it. That specific casting circumstance perpetuates a harmful stereotype.
Color-conscious casting would be having the foresight to think, “What is putting this on stage going to say?” We don’t live in a raceless society. Racism exists, so how can our casting break barriers for people who have not had enough opportunities AND also serve those communities in a productive way?
Amy: Yes, perhaps there is a world in which you could have, say, a Black Billy and a white Julie in Carousel. But then as the creative team of that production, you need to be aware of those historically charged racial dynamics and find a way to address that in the piece such that you’re not perpetuating harmful stereotypes.
Jenna: Right, and when you have something where the book was written in the 1940s…
Amy: That’s hard. That’s a big task.
Jenna: Prioritizing color-conscious casting doesn’t mean that these things are not allowed or impossible, but it means that you have to put in the work to make sure the art you’re putting out into the world is honoring the communities that are represented onstage or on screen.
Amy: Thank you for unpacking that.
Thoughts on Mentorship
Amy: Can you tell us about influential mentors you’ve had?
Jenna: I met Emily Maltby through MTWC, and she is a phenomenal director/choreographer. I’ve only known her a short time, but she has already been instrumental in guiding me as I enter the world of directing. She has been a wonderful sounding board and mentor, and I just adore her.
Also, Tonna Miller was one of my voice teachers at the Institute for American Musical Theatre, and she’s a wonderful human being. It’s been interesting to talk to her as I navigate male-dominated spaces. We have had fairly similar experiences in that sense, but the ways that we have approached them throughout our lives have varied. I’ve learned so much from her as a performer, and also as a young woman advocating for myself and others in this industry. I’m very grateful to have met both Tonna and Emily.
Envisioning a More Feminine Theatrical Space
Hayley: Jenna, what does a more feminine theatrical space look like to you?
Jenna: I mean, women! Having more women in a space - there’s a wider scope of dialogue that can happen in a space that’s more diverse. I also think a more feminine space is a more emotionally realized space. I know you have spoken about feminine stakes before in this project. Feminine stakes can also apply to characters who aren’t necessarily women. Because the idea of feminine stakes is having a situation that feels very large and impactful to one person but might seem somewhat neutral or not as heavy to the wider audience.
Hayley: You said it the other day, the idea that a micro moment can have macro stakes for an individual.
Jenna: Yes, that! So I think a more feminine theatrical space allows for the exploration of those moments and the more nitty gritty moment-to-moment experience of an individual, rather than a grand hero’s journey. Obviously, that will always be a part of theatre and everyone is going to continue to love it - but these smaller explorations of family and mental illness and identity, that is feminine theatre to me.
Amy: Things that we haven’t thought of as being inherently theatrical in the past, but they are!
Jenna: Yeah, giving a voice to topics and experiences that haven’t been widely explored yet.
Final Thoughts
Hayley: Jenna, what are you most proud of in your life?
Jenna: What I’m most proud of is myself and who I am, I’ve taken a long way to get here. I’m not perfect. I make mistakes all the time. But I wake up every day trying to be a good person, and I’m happy that that’s where I come from as a human being and glad to be a person who’s putting that energy out into the world. I love my family and my friends very much, and they’re the most important thing to me. And I’m very grateful every day that I have a strong relationship with my family and that I have surrounded myself with amazing friends and a strong community.
Hayley: Jenna, is there anything else you would like to share?
Jenna: Art is important in the world and as artists, we’re doing something important. I feel very lucky to have such a strong sense of a creative mission, because I know that what I’m doing is important, and I want to make a difference in the world, and I’m gonna.
Amy: You are! And you will.
Jenna: Starting small is good. There is nothing that’s too little to start. Steve Jobs said, “The people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do.” I like that quote a lot because I have such big aspirations and I really do think that I can change the world. If you don’t think you can change the world, you’re never going to. You have to think it’s possible in order to do it. And that goes for anything.
Amy: Thank you so much Jenna, it’s so lovely to chat with you.
Jenna: Thank you for having me.
