S2E6: Elle Reimer
In this episode, Hayley and Amy speak with up-and-coming performer Elle Reimer about telling stories that matter, balancing paid work and art, increasing access to arts education, and taking care of ourselves by resisting hustle culture. As a bonus, we celebrate Women’s History Month by spotlighting singer and actress Ethel Waters. Scroll down for episode notes and transcript!
Episode Notes
Guest: Elle Reimer
Hosts: Hayley Goldenberg and Amy Andrews
Music: Chloe Geller
Episode Resources:
Women’s History Month Spotlight: Ethel Waters
Dead Broke - Toronto Fringe
Eva Tavares - Behind the Mask
Guest Bio
Originally from British Columbia, Elle Reimer (she/her) moved to Toronto in September 2021 to pursue her career in theatre. She holds a diploma in Musical Theatre from Capilano University. Select theatre credits include Doralee Rhodes in 9 to 5 (CapU Theatre), Grand Hotel, It’s a Wonderful Life (Arbutus Studio), Dead Broke (Toronto Fringe 2022). Elle is passionate about telling new and impactful stories with strong women at the forefront. Follow along with her journey on Instagram @ellereimer!
Find Elle Online:
Instagram: @ellereimer
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Episode Transcript
(Music)
Hayley: Hello, beautiful people, and welcome to the Women & Theatre Podcast! We're your hosts, Hayley Goldenberg…
Amy: …and Amy Andrews. Grab a cup of coffee and join us as we talk to people in the theatre industry about their experiences with womanhood.
Hayley: On the pod, we interview people with different gender identities, from different backgrounds, with varying levels of industry experience and professional roles.
Amy: Our goal is to build community and pool our collective wisdom to break down the barriers we continue to face.
(Music)
Amy: In this week’s episode, we speak with performer Elle Reimer. Originally from British Columbia, Elle moved to Toronto in September 2021 to pursue her career in theatre. She holds a diploma in Musical Theatre from Capilano University. Select theatre credits include Doralee Rhodes in 9 to 5, Grand Hotel, It’s a Wonderful Life, and Dead Broke at the Toronto Fringe in 2022. Elle is passionate about telling new and impactful stories with strong women at the forefront.
Hayley: Hello, listeners! We are so excited to be here today with one of my favorite people and artists, Elle Reimer. Elle, could you please introduce yourself, share your pronouns, and tell us a little bit about what you do in theatrical spaces?
Elle: Hi, my name is Elle Reimer. My pronouns are she/her, and I'm an actor and a singer. I did my musical theatre program, so that's kind of the industry I focus a little bit more into, but I'm dipping my toes into film and TV and voiceover and whatnot.
Amy: Can you tell us a little bit about how you first came to theatre and your creative work?
Elle: Yeah, so as a kid I was always singing and dancing. That was, I think, very typical of a lot of theatre people. That was kind of my parents’ sign to maybe put me into something. So I started doing choir on Vancouver Island, where I grew up. And we did a lot of musical theatre within our rep, and that inspired me to kind of keep going. And then I started working with a semi-professional company in Victoria, doing classes and eventually doing their shows.
Hayley: Elle, can you tell us about what you're working on creatively right now, or any recent projects that have been really exciting for you?
Elle: Yeah. This past summer, I was in a Toronto Fringe production, and that was a really great experience for me. It’s kind of always been a bucket list thing to do a Toronto Fringe show. It was called Dead Broke. It was a short comedy/drama/horror kind of situation. I got to originate a role, which was really cool. And I love working on new work, so that was great.
And now I am auditioning like crazy, doing a lot of kind of work-from-home and submitting for things. And I'm hoping to work on my own project. I'm currently developing an idea for a cabaret to talk about life and being a woman in this industry and some of my experiences.
Amy: Cool! Elle, I like to ask our interviewees who are kind of earlier on in their careers and just getting started - this is a thing that probably changes on a day-to-day basis, as it does for a lot of us. But for you today, how would you define success in this industry? What would that look like for you?
Elle: Okay, I love this question because I think there's the answer that I have that's the “hard on myself” answer, and then the genuine answer of like, “Okay, get out of your ego. What is success actually?” I think at the end of the day, if I can make a living telling stories that matter to people and that change the way people think in a way, or… I had a mentor who talked about how as theatre artists, it's our job to feel things on stage to allow audience members to feel things they don't allow themselves to feel in their daily lives. So if I can make a living doing that, I'm good.
But of course there are the little things. I'm like, “I'd love to do this. I'd love to have this role played in this HBO show, or do this or do this.” I have all of those little things in my head. But I think at the end of the day, the least ego-attached version of success is just being able to make a living telling stories that matter.
Hayley: I love that.
Amy: That's great.
Hayley: I love that a lot. Connected to that, do you have a creative mission that encapsulates what you wanna do with your art, specifically?
Elle: Oh, I love this. Right now, the thing I'm reminding myself and looking at every day is just this little quote that says, “It's not a dumb idea.” That is me right now.
Hayley: It's not a dumb idea. Love it.
(Musical transition)
Hayley: Elle, you and I have a longstanding relationship, and I know that you have a lot of opinions and feelings about what it means to be a woman in this industry and what womanhood means to you. So I would love for you to talk a little bit about that.
Elle: Yeah, absolutely. I love being a woman. I do. And obviously that comes with struggles, and I'm quite a privileged woman in the grand scheme of things, so I also like to keep that in mind. But right now, I think for me, it is saying things that my younger self wouldn't say. That's a huge thing I'm focusing on. I've worked in the restaurant industry for eight years, and I've seen a lot. And a lot of it has had to do with my gender and, and I've been treated different ways.
Even just the other day - I'm working at a brewery right now, and I was grabbing a beer for a guy, ringing it in for him, and he goes, “Oh, it's the one in the pretty purple can.” And I was like, “I know, I work here. Like I 100% know.”
Hayley: Like, literally mansplaining to you the beer menu.
Elle: Yeah. And it's the language used. And the brewer and my manager were standing next to me, and both of them were like, “He would never say that to us.” They're both men. “Never, never say that to us.” And it's little things like that that I'm learning to just say, “Oh, I know, I work here.” And I'm not rude, you know, I don't feel the need to pick a fight with these people all the time. Maybe sometimes. But I'm learning to say things to make people realize, “Hey, that's not cool.” So I think that's part of it.
And I also acknowledge, in that, that I’m in a position where I may be safer than other people who identify as women to stand up to these people. And I'm realizing more and more, like, that is our job to say these things. And it's scary. And I take care of myself, but I think I'm at a point now where I'm like, “All right, nope, we're gonna address that head-on.” So yeah, that's a huge part of being a woman for me.
But there's also just little things I love, like being in a group of women and everyone saying, “Text me when you get home.” “Get home safe.” The way that women kind of look out for each other.
Hayley: I love that.
Amy: Yeah, that's a thing Hayley and I both love about womanhood too. The specialness of spaces of, by, and for women.
Elle: Yeah, totally.
Hayley: Very much, yeah. There's a different energy around it. It feels cozy in a different way.
Amy: Thank you for those beautiful words about womanhood. I wanna shift the conversation a little bit to talk about how womanhood intersects with theatre for you. I wanna talk about strengths and struggles. How do you feel that womanhood is a strength for you in this industry? And what are challenges that you've faced, if any, because of your gender and your identity?
Elle: I think especially in university programs, it really gets kind of instilled into your identity that there's so many women. “It's oversaturated” is kind of the energy, and I don't agree with that, but… I think there's this sense of competition that almost gets put upon us, even if we don't want it to be there.
So… kind of working to eliminate that and also be really real with myself. Like, do I have something against this person, or are they in a position that I want to be in? And I love women, I'm a gal's gal through and through. But still, we've been conditioned to see each other as competition for years and years, and it's because it benefits these straight white men at the top of these systems, and they want us to fight against each other to win their validation.
Amy: Yes, that is indeed the problem.
Elle: Here's the thing: there's always gonna be things to work on when it comes to your craft, 100%. But at the end of the day, the industry in which we work is dominated by a group of people who want us to be fighting against each other. And I really don't think any of us want that, I don't think that's something any of us really desire or get a kick out of. So that's the most challenging part, for sure, for me, I think.
Hayley: Yeah. How about the ways in which it's a benefit to you?
Elle: Yeah. I find myself relating to a lot of female characters, which I love. For me, when I read either a new character or someone written by a woman, I feel seen. Being able to take that and say, “Okay, how can I bring some of myself and my lived experiences into these characters?” Especially when they're women who are working in everyday jobs. Like, I always go back to the service industry, but I can relate a lot to hardworking women, because of that, so...
Hayley: Yeah, totally. You're talking a lot about your position in theatere but then also you have this other J-O-B, your side career that helps support your art. How do you think about balancing all of the different things that you do and staying healthy and resilient through that?
Elle: This is such an important topic because, for those of us who aren't fully financially stable on our own all the time…
Hayley: Which most of us aren't, listeners.
Elle: It's really valuable to talk about that a little bit more, because I've always had a little bit of a guilt when I dedicate more time to my J-O-B. Because at the end of the day, while it's something I've done for a long time, I don't associate it as being part of my identity. It is just a way I make my money, and it's something I've gotten good at through experience.
Hayley: Totally.
Elle: But yeah, the balance is difficult because - to be honest, there's times when you're like, okay, it's either make enough money to pay my bills or take this acting class. And you have to be able to find the balance. I think I'm getting to a point now where I just have to remind myself: This is not it. Like, the big “It.” The big “It” is the career of theatre and acting and singing and the small “it” is what I'm using to get myself there and support myself.
I've found it really beneficial to have days that I set aside just for doing my own work and saying no to taking on extra shifts. I mean, when times are tough, you do what you gotta do. But having days where I really just focus on my craft is really helpful. Or even time blocking, like, “Okay, I'm gonna work on my auditioning or my own work for a couple hours before I go in.” It's difficult, and it means you're working two full-time jobs or two part-time jobs at once. But that's definitely been something I've learned to do.
Amy: Yeah. I think it's such an under-discussed topic in the theatre industry and I just wanna talk about it with everyone, about… How do you make the money to support your art? And how do you organize your time? It's something that I certainly struggle with a lot and that everyone I know struggles with, and too often we struggle in our own little silos without talking to each other and exchanging tips and advice, so thank you for being open with us.
Elle: Absolutely. I think the more we talk about this kind of thing, the better it's going to get.
Amy: For all of us.
Elle: Yeah. People feeling a little bit less shame about financial status and what they have to do to make money in order to pursue this career - where there often isn't a whole lot of money until you get to a certain level… I think we need to debunk the shame around that.
Hayley: Yeah. Well, and also just talking more openly about how hard it is and not being apologetic about that. The fact that we have to hustle several jobs at one time to get to the place where we can then make enough money to survive at the thing that we trained to do.
Amy: We're all kind of forging our own path. Which is freeing and scary.
Elle: 100%. Yeah. I think some people feel the pressure to have their J-O-B be in that industry as well, like, whether it's working in a dance studio or whatever. And that's great, like if that works for people, that's awesome. You're kind of immersed in the industry a little bit more while doing that. But at the same time, it doesn't make you any less of an actor because you're also a bartender or because you also work at a coffee shop.
Amy: Yeah. And there can be a danger too with having a J-O-B in the theatre industry. It can be harder for folks in the industry to see you as an artist outside of that.
Hayley: Totally, yeah. When I got out of theatre school, I was working an admin job at a theatre school. It did not get me anywhere. At the time, I was like, “Oh, this is gonna be super helpful.” It was helpful in other ways. I was able to pay my bills, and that was great, and I learned other admin skills that have helped me parlay other J-O-Bs. But as far as my actual theatre career, no.
Amy: Yeah. I've lived that life too, where I've been a receptionist somewhere exciting, and I'm like, “Oh, they're gonna see what a good job I'm doing and they're gonna put me in the job that I want.” And actually what happens is they see, and they say, “Wow, you're a really good receptionist!” So…
Hayley: Yeah, so I think it's wise of you, Elle, that you have this other thing that you know you're really good at.
Amy: Well, and also in terms of health and wellness, it's probably healthy for us all to…
Hayley: Have some separation?
Amy: …take a little break from thinking about theatre at times in our lives, ‘cause it is an industry that can kind of take over your life.
Hayley: Totally. What are your opinions, Elle, on hustle culture?
Elle: I have been a longtime anti-hustle culture girly. For a little bit of background, I do have a certificate in holistic nutrition. I did a program through Pacific Rim College, which is a really amazing school of health that I went to during the pandemic to learn a little bit more about taking care of myself. And I don't practice, but I do have knowledge from people who are professionals in the wellness scene. So…
There are so many downsides to hustling too hard. And there are upsides too, of course. You know, getting your work done is important, and especially in this industry, nobody is gonna do your work for you. However, if you don't take care of the car, it's not gonna run. And that's a really hard lesson to learn for a lot of people, I think, especially in our industry.
Like, you think about the hours - eight shows a week, that's a lot of work. And it's amazing, but I think there's a little bit of this sense of, “Well, if you think that's too much work, then we'll find somebody who doesn’t.” And just now, you're seeing more people talk about six days or five days a week instead in the theatre industry…
Hayley: Like, people advocating for going for five days or less shows, possibly.
Elle: Yeah, totally. That's really brave in an industry that tells you you're so replaceable if you have any issue with how things are working. Because you can burn yourself out and it can take a really long time to feel 100%.
Amy: Yeah! When you're talking about advocating for shorter work hours - more reasonable, like, realistic human work hours… For everyone involved in the theatre industry. Everyone is perpetually overworked, and that is a big problem that we are starting to try to address.
The piece that always - like, I hear the counterargument in my head as we are talking about reducing the number of hours - is the money piece. Theatres just operate on such a thin margin. I mean, we saw in the pandemic, that to take out a couple of shows a week makes it unsustainable to produce theatre. I certainly have some thoughts about how to adjust those things, but this isn't my interview, so I'd love to hear if you have thoughts about how to kind of reconcile those two things - the humane hours and making an industry that's financially sustainable.
Elle: Yeah, I wish I had the answer.
Amy: I don't think there is one answer, right?
Elle: Yeah, it's so tough because… Wouldn't it be amazing if every Broadway show didn't have empty seats every single night? Like, if every seat was full every night? I think in theatre, things like marketing and the kind of work that's coming out is starting to change. And I think that's going to be very good for the industry long term. There's always an adjustment period, but seeing more new work, seeing more work that modern people can relate to, and have access to, would be huge. And I don't know how funding plays into that. But I mean, wouldn't it be great if there was more government money put toward the arts?
Hayley: Yeah, definitely government money, definitely… I've been saying, we need streaming rights. You could reach so many more people. And I'm not talking about just pro shots. Like, stick a camera at the back of a theatre and let people stream for cheaper ticket prices.
Amy: All these people are making money from bootlegs anyway. Why not legitimize it as part of the industry?
Hayley: Totally totally. In my opinion, it wouldn't discourage people from coming to the theatre. If anything, people would want to come see the live show.
Amy: It Is not the same thing as seeing live theatre.
Hayley: Exactly!
Amy: And like, I've certainly seen shots of musicals that I say, “Oh my god, that makes me really wanna see it live!” You know, it’s good advertising.
Hayley: Yeah, totally. I feel like that whole argument of “Oh, they won't spend the money then to go see the show” is not true.
Amy: Well, and the other piece of it is to make tickets more accessible.
Hayley: Exactly, exactly.
Elle: Even with Hamilton being filmed - I mean, that's a huge show that a lot of people knew about already. Think about how many people were introduced to it through Disney+ and then decided to go, “Oh my gosh, wait, musical theatre. I kind of like this. I wonder what other shows I could watch.” I'm sure so many people saw it on Disney+ first, and then on their family vacation went to see it on Broadway.
Hayley: Totally.
Amy: We've been talking about changes that we'd like to see in the theatre industry. So, what else you got? If you had a magic wand and could change the theatre industry, what would you do?
Elle: I think I would start at the ground level, especially when it comes to arts education. It is such a privilege to get to train. Hayley and I went to the same school, we went to Capilano University in Vancouver, and we did a three year program. That's an expensive thing that I got to do. And I did it in Canada,
Hayley: And for context, for listeners, Canadian theater educations are significantly cheaper than the US.
Elle: Totally. And I'd like to think it's changing a little bit, but people who are signing with big agencies or are being seen as very well trained actors are often these people who went to these bigger schools in the States. And that's awesome. They put out very, very talented people. I grew up on Vancouver Island, and we have a good amount of performing arts training, but at the same time, it's an island in Canada. We don't have the school experience in the same way.
And I think changing that somehow at a ground level and making it more accessible for people - whether it's bringing more people into smaller schools to do guest directing positions and stuff like that or even just making the arts accessible for people as extracurriculars when they're young. I look back now at the voice lessons I was able to take and the acting class that I took. And that was a huge privilege. There are so many people who can't afford to take these classes. And unfortunately, we're an industry that's like, “Get to class.” So how do we bridge that gap?
Hayley: Yeah, not just financial standing, but literally accessibility in terms of getting to a place. Like, having a class nearby, having access to a car or public transit.
Amy: And advocating for the arts in public schools as well. I've been looking at kindergartens for my daughter in New York City public schools, and we're so lucky that we have schools around us that have great arts programs. That is really not the case, not even for most of New York City, but for most of the country. And that really, really needs to change because the arts are a critical part of growing up, of learning how to be a person, regardless of whether you go into it as a career.
Elle: Yeah, totally. And it's unfortunate that this thing that we love so much is actually a pretty inaccessible thing in a lot of ways.
Hayley: Totally. Elle, can you talk a little bit about something that you wish was less taboo to talk about, a topic that you feel like is not being explored enough in theatrical spaces?
Elle: Yes. I think that we don't see a lot about the time in between. I don't see a lot of people saying, “I haven't had a contract in three months, and here's what I've been doing. Here's what I'm doing in between jobs.” There are a few people I see who post a lot about their contracts, and that's awesome ‘cause it's very, very inspiring.
But the reality of it, especially in Canada right now, with theatre being a little bit different post-pandemic and auditions, feeling a little bit trickier to get into, I would say… It's a real struggle. It's a real thing. And I talk to people in person and they're like, “Yeah, man, I'm going through it with you.” Maybe if we all talked about it, we could find some kind of a thing we could all do to make ourselves feel better.
(Musical transition)
Amy: Elle, could you tell us about influential mentors that you've had so far in your career and the lessons that you've taken from them?
Elle: Yeah. I would say the mentor who's done a lot for me is Eva Tavares. She played Christine in the Phantom tour a few years ago, and I took her class Beyond the Mask and have worked with her one-on-one. I don't think I could say enough positive things about her and about her work and what she's done for me and for so many of her students. I know a lot of people post-grad from theatre school have to do a little bit of unlearning - relearning how to see themselves as artists and new ways to act that maybe work for them. And she's done so much of that for me. She has a really great way of teaching people to come to work authentically. So, yeah.
Hayley: Yeah. Can you talk about specific ways that she has done that? How does she set up her space? What is unique about Eva that makes the space safer?
Elle: Yeah! One is just her energy. She's one of those people who is incredibly warm. She kind of encourages just doing whatever the thing is that comes to your brain. Like, there was one song I was doing and I was sitting in a chair and she was like, “Look at your sleeve. Play with your sleeve.” And I was like, wait, I do that as a human being. Why can't I do that up on stage right now? Or just sitting back and listening to the words that you're saying. “Okay, how do these affect me?” Just let yourself be. And then I'm like, wait, that's what it feels like to be authentic? I don't have to put on a show. I can just let myself be impacted by the words and the piano? I didn't know that.
Hayley: Elle, if you could tell your younger self something about this career, if you could give her advice, what would you say?
Elle: Stop beating yourself up for how you look all the time. Stop. It is not helping you. I wasted a lot of time being really hard on myself for things that I just simply could not control. I think it's that, and just trust that everything's gonna be okay and that you deserve to be here. You're not an imposter. If you get a role, you got it because you deserved it. It's okay.
Amy: Yeah, I think we could all stand to hear that, whether our younger selves or ourselves today. Those are helpful reminders. Elle, could you talk to us about what you are most proud of in your life and in your work?
Elle: Oh my goodness. In my work right now, I strive to be somebody who isn't scared to share ideas in the room. And I used to be very scared to share ideas in the room, so I'm really proud of that. Being like, “I'm a human being and it's okay to be here.”
Hayley: Yeah, like it's okay to show up the way that I am as a human.
Elle: Yeah. I'm proud of that aspect of things, and trying to be a team player and bring a positive energy to the space. I guess resiliency overall. I feel like I'm working smarter, not harder.
Amy: Can you tell us more about that?
Hayley: Yeah, what does that mean for you?
Elle: Yeah. I think sometimes the really hard parts of self-care come in just doing the thing that sucks to do. Sometimes it's going to an audition that I don't think I'm right for. “Maybe I'm wasting my time by going, I shouldn't go. I'm not gonna book this.” I had one of those recently, and I went, and I had such a great night, and it was basically a free class. I met so many nice people. My work was really appreciated in the space. And I was like, oh.
Do the hard thing. Do the thing that you have resistance to. And move past that resistance, because it can lead you to things.
Amy: That's cool. A thing that's been coming up in my life a lot that I'm paying attention to right now is figuring out the “why.” Like, why are you showing up in a certain space or choosing to do a certain thing? So like - not that I'm performing anymore, but if I'm going to an audition that I don't think I'm necessarily right for or gonna book, just knowing - I'm going because I need to practice my audition skills, or I'm going because I wanna make a connection with this person, and just having that strong “why.” It can help make the harder things this much easier. Little, tiny bit easier.
Elle: Totally. And even just meeting another actor in the room who's nice, and you maybe follow each other on Instagram - to me, that's gaining something.
Hayley: Yeah, you're building a relationship.
Elle: It's a tiny connection. Yeah, totally.
Hayley: Elle, anything else you wanna share about being a woman in theatre?
Elle: Just keep on going. Take care of yourself.
Amy: That's beautiful. Elle, where can the people find you on the internet?
Elle: On Instagram, my handle is @ElleReimer.
Amy: Thank you.
Hayley: Elle, thank you so much for your time and your insight and your vulnerability and your honesty.
Amy: Thank you so much!
Elle: Thank you so much for having me!
(Music)
Hayley: Thank you for listening to the Women & Theatre Podcast. We’re your hosts, Hayley Goldenberg…
Amy: And Amy Andrews. If you like what you heard, subscribe and give us a 5-star review wherever you listen.
Hayley: You can also follow us on social @womenandtheatreproject to make sure you never miss an episode.
Amy: The music for this show is written by talented Women & Theatre community member Chloe Geller.
Hayley: Thanks for listening, everyone. See you next time!
Amy: Bye!
