S1E1: Welcome to the Women & Theatre Podcast!
In Episode 1.1, Hayley and Amy welcome listeners to the Women & Theatre podcast! We talk about the Women & Theatre project and why the intersection of women and theatre is important to each of us. As a bonus, we also share our theatrical superpowers! Scroll down for episode notes and transcript!
Episode Notes
Hosts: Hayley Goldenberg and Amy Andrews
Music: Chloe Geller
Watch Emma Watson’s 2014 UN speech
The Women & Theatre podcast is created and produced by Hayley Goldenberg and Amy Andrews. Please like, comment, subscribe, follow us on Instagram and Facebook, and consider making a donation to support our work. Thank you for listening!
Episode Transcript
Hayley: Hello, beautiful people, and welcome to the Women & Theatre Podcast! We're your hosts, Hayley Goldenberg…
Amy: …and Amy Andrews. Grab a cup of coffee and join us as we explore the experiences of women and nonbinary people in the theatre industry.
Hayley: On the pod, we interview people from different backgrounds with varying levels of industry experience and professional roles.
Amy: Our goal is to build community, identify the unique benefits that women and nonbinary folks bring to theatrical spaces, and pool our collective wisdom to break down the barriers we continue to face.
(music ends)
Hayley: Hello, beautiful people. We are here with the first ever Women and Theatre podcast! I am so excited to introduce to you my collaborator, my work wife, my bestie: Amy Andrews. She is a librettist, a lyricist, a dramaturg, a producer, and an amazing mom. She's originally from DC and moved to New York by way of LA 13 years ago, and she's never leaving. She's a former sex educator and she loves Virginia Woolf novels, coffee, wine and listens to basic girl music and does so unapologetically, which I love about her.
Amy: Amazing. Let me introduce you to the fabulous incomparable woman of many hats, none on her head: Ms. Hayley Goldenberg. Hayley's theatrical hats include lyricist, librettist, and director. Hayley was born in Santa Barbara, raised in Toronto, and trained in Vancouver, and as of last year, she is officially New York City-based and lives right around the corner from me. She loves yoga, Gilmore Girls, Greta Gerwig films, and has a soft spot for reality TV. Hayley is a wonderful human being who is a delight to be friends with and collaborators with. And you are gonna fall in love with her on this podcast just as I have in life.
Hayley: So Amy, I have put together some questions for us to chat about and just like get cozy. So listeners, grab your coffee because this is important to us that you have a cozy hot beverage while you listen to us talk. So Amy, I wanna know what led you to doing this kind of work? Like what led you to feminist-theater intersectionality?
Amy: Yeah. I have had a long and winding journey to where I am, launching this podcast with you. I suppose I was always a bit of a feminist, but I really discovered it and embraced it when I was in college at Scripps College in Claremont, California. Intersectional feminism was a big part of my college education and community. And then I continued that after college when I moved to New York and worked as a sex educator, and then later worked in communications in a large sexual and reproductive health and rights nonprofit organization. So intersectional feminism is something that I've been talking about and writing about for pretty much my entire adult life, and it's something I'm really passionate about and will, like, get super into nerdy theory and practice. I'm very interested in thinking and talking about and working on how the ways that we live impact different groups of people differently and how we can work to make the world a more equitable space for everybody.
So then, I guess kind of on a parallel track, I grew up doing theater, performing, singing, acting. I studied music in college and I moved to New York to perform, as you do, and fell into sex education as a side job while I was auditioning, and then realized that I loved sex education way more than I loved auditioning.
Hayley: Just to stop you for a second. Who wouldn't want to talk about sex all day instead of standing in line at 5:00 AM in the snow? I mean, it makes sense. You know?
Amy: I mean, it's a cool thing to get paid for. I'll say that. (laughs) And very rewarding too. I really loved having that kind of direct communication with people and feeling like I was really, you know, helping people feel more comfortable with things and face their fears and make their lives better.
The theatre piece I kind of put on hold for a long time. And I think, you know, I was dealing with some trauma around that just from, like, the ways in which the theatre community unfortunately teaches young women harmful messages about their bodies and their place in the world. So I came back to theatre a few years ago, actually around the time that I was pregnant with my daughter. I was very overwhelmed by the idea that like, oh my god, I'm creating another life in my body. And I felt that I needed a creative outlet that was just for me. And so I picked up creative writing, which is something I used to do as a child and hadn't touched in a really, really, really long time. And I started doing it and found it very rewarding and turns out like literally an entire childhood spent being the weird theatre girl and just listening to musical theatre soundtracks and like seeing shows really prepares you for a life in the theatre. I surprise myself at how deep and broad my knowledge of musical theatre is. And it's been really helpful to me as I pursue this journey as a musical theatre writer and creator.
And so when you moved to New York - and we had connected in a Zoom class during the pandemic over our shared feminist values - I remember, and you'll tell your side of this, but we took a long walk in the park and we talked about the challenges that we encounter as women in theatre and we were both kind of seeking community. And specifically a community of other women in theatre, kind of women helping women to get ahead in the industry. And we sort of mutually envisioned this project that, like, I just love it so much and I'm so proud of it. I'm so proud of how we've grown it since January and how it's continuing. I'm so excited about the new initiatives we have planned for the fall and it's just, it's a joy in my life.
Hayley: Oh, I love that.
Amy: Yay! So tell me about you. What led you to the specific intersection that is women and theatre?
Hayley: Yeah. Well, growing up, I was like a theatre kid, very much like you being the weird girl who, like, only listened to Broadway cast albums. I could only see myself being a performer and really nothing else at the time.
When it comes to feminism, it's interesting because I don't remember exactly what my feminist awakening was. I remember this conversation that Emma Watson had at the UN where she was doing a speech about that anyone who believes that, like, women should have equal rights to men should consider themselves a feminist. The word feminist has always had a lot of stigma around it because you picture people burning their bras…
Amy: Fun fact: There is no historical record of anyone ever burning a bra in the Second Wave feminist movement.
Hayley: Shut up. I didn't know that.
Amy: Yep. Urban myth.
Hayley: Wow.
Amy: I know, kind of blows your mind, right?
Hayley: The word feminist has a stigma around it, and people associate all kinds of stereotypes with that word. And so we need more men as allies. If you as a man believe that we deserve to be equal, then that is feminism. I remember feeling really, like, excited to see someone that I looked up to speaking out about those things and putting words to something that I didn't really have the words for. And so that's the first recollection I have of having a conversation about feminism. And it was obvious to me that I was a feminist.
I had a really bad experience with bullying and with slut shaming in college, and so this was like another moment in my life that started providing context to things that had happened to me growing up and things that had been said to me and the messaging that I was getting and how I had been treated as a young girl in the world. And that started getting my wheels turning a lot about what being a woman meant and what I had interpreted it meaning and the ways in which myself and other women were pitted against each other in theatre communities, in high school, in all of these environments. And the way I had perpetuated those things unknowingly and participated in those games that the patriarchy had built for me and other women. And that felt really bad.
That experience was happening at the same time as I was doing a show, and because we didn't have enough men in our program, what the theatre program at my college did was just like gender flipped a bunch of roles. It added so much depth to the show to have women in roles that were layered and complicated, and all of the things that a lot of men get to be in musical theatre I was experiencing and seeing my friends experience for the first time. And that lit up a fire in my brain and I was like, I wanna see more of this. Like what happens if something as gendered as How to Succeed… was gender swapped?
And then I thought of this idea of like, sitting down and having conversations with other women about their experiences in theatre. So I sat down with women who I looked up to in the theatre and just had a conversation, very similar to the ones that we have now as a part of the Women & Theatre project, asking the question of: When were you aware of your gender? How do you feel it has impacted you and your life? And all these things, and it was so inspiring to me.
And so I had this thought of, like, at some point in my journey creatively, I wanna get women in a room together and open up these conversations, because I just was thinking about how impactful that would've been for me as a young girl. I want to combine theatre and feminism, find community with other women. And so when I moved here and we had that amazing day in the park, we were having the conversation and like asking each other questions about our experiences. And I was just like, wow. Wouldn't it be cool for other women to hear these conversations out loud? Wouldn't it be cool if other women coming up in the industry, women who hold positions of power, saw these conversations that have been considered taboo happening in real time? And like, what's so taboo about us talking about our experiences? I mean that's how men get jobs in theatre all the time.
(Transition)
Hayley: Amy, let's have a fun question. I have a fun question for you.
Amy: Okay, yeah!
Hayley: What is your theatre superpower?
Amy: Hmm. I think my theatre superpower is empathy. The reason why I say that is because lately, as I share my theatre writing, consistent positive feedback that I've been getting is that my characters are so clear and well developed and just kind of live off the page as people. And I think that comes from me being a person who is very interested in people and figuring out what makes them tick and, like, trying to understand what people are thinking and feeling and what's going on in their heads. Which is also a thing that's come up in a lot of our Women & Theatre interviews as a particular strength that women bring to theatrical spaces. So I've been really excited to see that highlighted in my writing work.
The reason it surprises me to say that is because normally my big thing that I always will talk your ear off about is communication. ‘Cause I'm a big, big, big proponent of open, honest communication. I really think we can solve all the world's problems with it. And I think I'm coming around to the idea that empathy is sort of a prerequisite for open, honest communication.
Hayley: Nice. Can I tell you what I think your theatre superpower is?
Amy: Yes, please!
Hayley: Your enthusiasm, like your passion. I say the word enthusiasm because your passion manifests in this, like, sunshine-y ball that is just a frickin’ joy to be around. And even in your, like, times where you're feeling tired or you're low, I still see that sunshine radiating from you. I just feel really lucky to like have you in my creative and personal life because you just bring that light everywhere you go. So that's one.
And then I also think it's like a connected thing. You're really good at being a community leader. Like, you're good at bringing people into a room together and, without limiting yourself or others, going like, “How can we make this big dream happen?” How do we go from point A to point Z and do the thing that feels unachievable? Like you bring the right people into the room, and you're not afraid to tackle those big questions or those big things. And so those are the two things that I would say are your super powers. And I know that they're theatre things and they're also like life things. But I think that our life fuels our art, so…
Amy: Amen. It sure does. Hayley, what's your theatre superpower?
Hayley: My theatre superpower is I'm good at making people feel understood and seen in both my work and also in how I work with people. That's my aim, is to like, make people feel like I got them, you know? And when I'm writing, my aim is always to make my audience feel seen and understood.
Amy: Yeah. I think that's spot on. I mean, I think a real strength of yours, and I see it in every Women & Theatre interview we do, is that you connect with people so effortlessly and make them feel comfortable in a space. And make them feel seen and heard and valued. And that is such a valuable skill to have as a person and as a theatre artist and collaborator. And you're also, I mean, we've discussed that you are a person who has really big ideas, which I love as another person who has really big ideas, and you are very good at operationalizing those ideas, figuring out ways to make them happen.
Hayley: Thanks!
(Transition)
Hayley: I wanna ask you: How has having the Women & Theatre community made you think differently about being a woman in theatre?
Amy: Gosh. My life as a theatre artist has changed a lot in the last couple of years. In the last year, really, since we started this project. When I started writing theatre, I felt so alone and disconnected, and I felt like I was longing for a community of writers and of theatre people and particularly of women and people with feminist sensibilities. And I really feel like I am actively building that for myself and I have built that for myself, and it is such a cool feeling. I wish that everyone could have this feeling of having a community of amazing women who are going through similar but different challenges and celebrations and just having people to connect with about these things.
I mean, theatre's hard. It's a hard space to be in in a lot of ways. It's an amazing industry that can be so rewarding, and it can also be so challenging and it can feel so isolating. I think our art is personal in a way that other people's work is not personal to them. And a wonderful thing and a big challenge about working in theatre is that our work is so connected to who we are as people. So it's nice to have a community of people who get that and who I can share that with. And to see that, like, I struggle with imposter syndrome. Well, guess what? So does every other person in this space. And just knowing that you're not the only person feeling a certain way is so helpful.
What about you? How has having this community - how has it been for you?
Hayley: With an industry that is so often like a vacuum, having a community like this is so validating and is so exciting because I have people now in my space who I'm like, “Oh, I know that person.” Or like, I can call this person if I have a question about this thing, or I can connect these two people. I can bring more people together, and that's something that brings me a lot of joy to do.
Amy: It's really exciting to see the members of our community grow in their careers, even over this year. We have at least two people in our community that are having their Broadway debuts this fall, and that's so exciting.
Hayley: It is really exciting.
Amy: And it's also been really exciting to me to see as we reach out to people who are more established in their careers and who you and I have looked up to, like, as role models, just how excited they are to talk with us about this stuff.
Hayley: Yeah. That has been shocking. It's so shocking to me every time we ask the question of like, what does being a woman mean to you? Or, you know, what is your creative mission? Like, asking these kind of big questions. I can see that they've never been asked them, and they're brimming with excitement to talk about it. But it's like, Oh my god, this is an aspect of my identity. Because I feel like for so long, as people who want to be leaders of our particular hats that we wear in this industry, people have been told you have to be more…
Amy: Like a man. Yeah.
Hayley: And I think that being asked about your creative mission and what drives you as an artist and, like, what amazing things you're doing and talk about your accomplishments in the same conversation, in the span of less than an hour - talking about that and also talking about like what being a woman means to you…like, that is the intersection of feminism and theater and womanhood and artistry and all these things that I feel like a lot of us are craving. It allows us to be whole people and not to silence parts of ourselves to fit into a mold. And I think that that's beautiful.
Amy: Yeah.
(Musical transition)
Hayley: Thank you for listening to our little teaser episode. We hope that you'll join us for our interviews with amazing theater people. You really won't wanna miss these. There are some really big names on here. There are some up-and-comers that you're gonna wanna know. So definitely stay tuned!
Amy: If you like what you heard, subscribe and give us a 5-star review wherever you listen.
Hayley: You can also follow us on social @womenandtheatreproject to make sure you never miss an episode.
Amy: The music for this show is written by talented Women & Theatre community member Chloe Geller.
Hayley: Thanks again for listening, everyone. See you next time!
Amy: Bye!
