S1E7: Elyssa Samsel and Kate Anderson
In this episode, Hayley and Amy speak with musical theatre writing team Elyssa Samsel and Kate Anderson. We talk about writing authentic and multifaceted characters, women celebrating and supporting each other, and the importance of innovation and risk taking for producers, creators, and theatre audiences. Scroll down for episode notes and transcript!
Episode Notes
Guests: Elyssa Samsel and Kate Anderson
Hosts: Hayley Goldenberg and Amy Andrews
Music: Chloe Geller
Episode Resources:
BMI Lehman Engel Musical Theatre Writing Workshop
Apple TV: Central Park
Disney: Olaf’s Frozen Adventure, DUKE: The Musical (Zootopia+)
Between the Lines - produced in 2022 at SecondStage, cast album coming soon! Based on the novel Between the Lines by Jodi Picoult and Samantha van Leer
The Book Thief - produced in 2022 at the Octagon Theatre (UK), based on the novel The Book Thief by Markus Zusak
Taylor the Latte Boy - written by Zina Goldrich and Marcy Heisler
Olney Theatre: Beauty and the Beast
Guest Bios
Elyssa Samsel (she/her) is a composer, violinist, pianist, and one half of the Songwriting team known as Samsel/Anderson, alongside Kate Anderson. They penned songs for Disney Animation’s Olaf’s Frozen Adventure and the hit Apple TV+ series Central Park. Elyssa and Kate met in the acclaimed BMI Lehman Engel Musical Theater Writing workshop in 2010 and have been writing partners ever since. Their musical BETWEEN THE LINES debuted off Broadway in July 2022 and their musical adaptation of THE BOOK THIEF by Markus Zusak premiered in the UK September 2022.
Kate Anderson (she/her) is a songwriter, improv comedian, sketch comedy writer, singer, and voice over actress. She has studied at the Upright Citizen’s Brigade in New York, and performs regularly with her improv team Duran Duran Duran. Kate’s voice can be heard as the “Norwegian Cookie Lady” and “Cat Lady” in Disney’s “Olaf’s Frozen Adventure”. Originally from Charlotte, NC, Kate graduated cum laude with a degree in Music and Creative Writing from Gettysburg College, where she studied classical voice on scholarship at the Sunderman Conservatory. Elyssa Samsel and Kate Anderson are the songwriting duo behind Apple TV’s Central Park, Disney Animation’s “Olaf’s Frozen Adventure” (Annie nomation), the off-Broadway Musical, “Between the Lines” , and “The Book Thief” which opened to rave reviews in the UK in 2022.
Find Elyssa and Kate Online:
Website: www.samselanderson.com
Instagram: @SamselAnderson @kateoboyleanderson @elyssalynnesamsel
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Episode Transcript
(Music)
Hayley: Hello, beautiful people, and welcome to the Women & Theatre Podcast! We're your hosts, Hayley Goldenberg…
Amy: …and Amy Andrews. Grab a cup of coffee and join us as we explore the experiences of women and nonbinary people in the theatre industry.
Hayley: On the pod, we interview people from different backgrounds with varying levels of industry experience and professional roles.
Amy: Our goal is to build community, identify the unique benefits that women and nonbinary folks bring to theatrical spaces, and pool our collective wisdom to break down the barriers we continue to face.
Hayley: On today's episode, we are joined by Elyssa Samsel and Kate Anderson, better known as Samsel/Anderson. Elyssa and Kate met in the acclaimed BMI Lehman Engel Musical Theatre Writing Workshop in 2010 and have been writing partners ever since. Samsel and Anderson are the songwriting duo behind Apple TV’s Central Park, Disney Animations’ Olaf's Frozen Adventure, the off-Broadway musical Between the Lines, and The Book Thief, which opened to rave reviews in the UK in 2022.
Hayley: We are here with Elyssa Samsel and Kate Anderson. Could the two of you please introduce yourselves, share your pronouns, and tell us a little bit about what you do in theatre?
Kate: Okay, I'll go first. I'm Kate Anderson and my pronouns are she/her. I am a musical theatre lyricist, and I've been writing songs with Elyssa for 12 years now.
Elyssa: I'm Elyssa Samsel. My pronouns are she/her, and I am a composer for musical theatre, and I work alongside Kate Anderson as the team Samsel/Anderson.
Amy: I'd love to hear from each of you about how you came to the field of musical theatre and to your creative work. And then I'd also love to hear about how you came together and started writing together.
Elyssa: So I started out as a lover of musical theatre. I had a classical background in violin and piano and singing. And then when I found musical theatre, it was like the perfect blend to me of how to tell stories through music. So I fell in love with all the classics and became a musical theatre actress. I went to AMDA in New York City when I was 17 and then started on a quest to become a musical theatre performer. But along the way, I realized that I wasn't really a fan of the way that typecasting happens in musical theatre. I felt that it was very black and white; you look like this, therefore you, as a female, are an ingenue, or you, as a female, are a character actress.
And I always felt like I wanted to get on the other side of it. And I was always writing music and writing songs anyway. But I saw an avenue and a need for musicals written by women about women who are not just checked into boxes based on their appearance, but they get to lean into their quirks and their senses of humor, and they can be fully themselves without trying to be like anybody else. So I started in the BMI Lehman Engel Workshop, which is a place where writers can meet other writers, and that's where I met Kate.
Kate: Yeah, I made it to the BMI Workshop in a semi-similar path. I also was a big theatre kid growing up, and I studied classical voice in college…but I think a part of me knew that I didn't have the chops to like, take it out into the big scary world of New York and like, actually do the thing and audition. That was okay by me because I also knew that I had this side of me that was like, well, I'm always the person backstage rewriting the lyrics of the songs. My older sister actually was the person who was like, “You should do BMI. You should do BMI.” I was an intern at the Public Theater in the development department. This was like my first year out of college, ‘cause I was like, “Oh, theatre admin, theatre admin, I’ll just do that. That'll be okay.” And she knew that I would not be satisfied in theatre admin…and she was right.
The whole program is like…the first year is a speed dating kind of thing where you, if you're a lyricist, you're gonna speed date all different composers. So Rick Fryer, who's one of the moderators, announced that Elyssa and I would be partners together for our first assignment. She turns around in her seat and we look at each other and we're wearing the exact same outfit.
Hayley: Shut up. Oh my gosh.
Kate: It was probably like 20% women, right? Maybe 30% at most in the class. And we like, got to talking cause they're like, “Go meet your partner.” And we started chatting, and we realized we lived five blocks away from each other. And then, as we like to say from there, it was “love at first write.”
Hayley: Nice. I know that you have so many exciting things going on creatively right now as a team. Elyssa, could you please talk a little bit about what's going on with you?
Elyssa: Sure. We have a show running right now in the UK. It's the world premiere of our stage adaptation of The Book Thief, which is a beautiful novel written by Markus Zusak, and it just premiered at the Octagon Theatre and runs for about another month or so. We're really excited to have that out in the world, we've been working on that for about five or six years.
Between the Lines is a musical that we wrote with Jodi Picoult and Timothy McDonald, and we're so happy that [the show] had its off-Broadway debut this year, and we're about to put out a cast album so everybody can hear all the songs from that show. It'll be on Spotify and iTunes and all that good stuff.
Kate: They did a live capture as well, so soon enough, we'll know when that'll be released and where you can see it.
Elyssa: Yeah, and we’ve got - Central Park is on its third season on Apple TV+. We've written a bunch of songs for that. It's a really, really fun uplifting show. We've got an episode of the Zootopia shorts that are out on Disney+ that comes out on November 9th. Yeah. What else, Kate?
Hayley: What else??
Kate: This has been the craziest year. Like, everything that we did in our 20s and early 30s happened this year. Truly, like, it all led to 2022 all happening and being born into the world all at once.
Hayley: How does that feel?
Kate: In a way it feels like, wow, now we're starting this whole new chapter and like, what's next? Like, that was a decade of work, you know? It's exciting in a lot of ways to finally have things out in the world to point to, to be like, “Yeah, that's us.” ‘Cause for so long you're working on it, you're working on it, and you're like, “It's coming.” And I'm really happy. Yeah. I'm really happy it's all out in the world now in various forms, and there will be next steps for both of those shows, and that'll be great.
Amy: Congratulations, you two. That's so much to be so proud of.
Kate: Thank you.
Amy: I'd like to ask you, I would like to know individually and collectively, do you have a creative mission that guides your work? Something that you're trying to do overall with your writing?
Kate: Yeah, thank you for asking that. Elyssa and I have always wanted to write authentic, female-driven stories, from a female perspective. As she previously mentioned, we wanna tell stories that have not previously really had a platform. We've worked with a lot of actresses that we've challenged to step into their weirdness and their comedy. A lot of girls coming out of their musical theatre programs being told they're this or they're that. “You're the quirky girl who gets the soft song in act two.” And it's like, no. You are also a character actress. We like writing roles that are like, “We haven't seen that before.” Yeah, that's sort of our mission, is just like writing these fun, quirky, true stories that are not a male idea of what women in theatre are. It's true, authentic, flawed characters.
Elyssa: We usually gravitate towards projects that have a whimsical element to them or an uplifting element. We've gotten lucky enough to write for characters that are really goodhearted and optimistic and spread that positivity to the others in their lives so that people are empowered to make changes and take the reins on their own life. We love stories like that, with a female protagonist if possible. I think we're just drawn to those stories because we've seen real-life experiences of people doing that, and it's always moving, and it's the type of story that we want to put out into the world.
Hayley: I think we all could have used that growing up as musical theatre people. It would've been very nice to have roles to audition for that had more depth, for young women to have the opportunity to be quirky and also be a love interest sometimes, have like a lot of different things going on, and not just like, “And now you're like the funny one.” Or “You're gonna play the mom forever.”
Elyssa: I love that you brought up audition songs, because I think that that's such a huge draw for us and why we started writing together in the first place. Because I always think about “Taylor the Latte Boy,” written by [Marcy] Heisler and [Zina] Goldrich. When that song came out, everybody was singing it in auditions - girls, guys… And the reason for that is that the song is so inclusive that anyone can sing it. Cause you just have a crush on Taylor the latte boy who's making your, you know, your latte. And that was so eye opening to me because it was a song that was written by two women, and it was a song that so many people related to and could sing, regardless of type, regardless of background, regardless of nationality, gender. It was so inclusive, and I think that the more songs we have like that for actors and actresses to sing, the better. Because we get to express ourselves more as creatives and artists - you know, every actor is an artist, and they deserve to be able to showcase that.
Amy: Yeah. I love that you think about that in your work. I mean, I'm not surprised that you think about it, but I love that you think about not only the impact of the characters on the world but also the impact of the characters on the actors who are playing them. It's such a gift that you're giving, particularly to women performers, to be able to see themselves as full people in the characters that they're playing. Probably shouldn't be revolutionary, but it kind of feels like it is.
Elyssa: Right. We had a great practice doing that for this amazing program at UC Irvine. It was a satellite program where the students would come to New York, and Kate and I would write 15-minute musicals based on their talents. It was the best practice ever for character writing, because we would ask them to go through every single special skill. We were so inspired, and it helped us hone our craft for writing for people's special talents.
Kate: We've always been drawn to the more, like, eclectic, weird, wonderful fellow freaks of the world.
Hayley: Yeah. Like, weird girl energy, absolutely. Kate, you mentioned that when the two of you were at BMI, about 20% of you were women. I'm curious about what your experience has been like in the industry as a team of two women.
Kate: Yeah, we've had an interesting journey. Absolutely, there have been times where it feels like whoever we're trying to work with can't really get past the fact that we're young, that we’re women. And oftentimes, they definitely cast judgment before we’ve even had a chance to prove what we can do. And we've had people tell us, “Oh, you should dress a certain way when you go to meetings. Like if you wanna be taken seriously, you need to dress, you need to wear, like, jeans and a blazer and a button-down, and you need to, you know, wear glasses if you can, or…,” you know what I mean?
Hayley: Look smart, look business, look more masculine.
Kate: Literally. And at a certain point, we just totally rejected that. We were like, “We're not gonna do that.” We're gonna wear our dresses and our boots, or whatever the hell we feel like wearing at the time that expresses who we are. And we're gonna try to trailblaze and change this perception that you have to like, be the guy's girl that can like, hang in the writer's room or whatever it may be. You know, we may not be people's cup of tea, and that's fine.
We've been so lucky to come across some incredible women that we've worked with. Jac Schaeffer, we wrote Olaf’s Frozen Adventure with - she's been such a huge inspiration for us. She owns the room like nobody else. Jodi Picoult is another woman who is just like, she rejects all kinds of gender standards. She goes after what she wants and she's unapologetic about it. And it's really inspiring to work alongside women like that, who are just like, “No, I'm not gonna like, sugarcoat things and hold your hand and, you know, have to stroke any kind of male ego.” We're really, really lucky that we've had those examples.
Some other challenges we've had…you know, I think it's hard to hand over work that is so authentic to our female experience. And at times, we've just had people who just absolutely don't get it. They don't get it because they didn't live it. They were never a 13-year-old girl or whatever. And so that's hard too, because then you're trying to explain why a certain lyric is written the way it is. Oftentimes, we get told that things are like, feeling very young or too sweet, or “skippy” is a word that's been used. And you just have to keep pushing up against it and just keep pushing for the authentic story that we know we have to tell to the world. Do you wanna speak on this too, Elyssa?
Elyssa: I think we have always looked to people who are successful and tried to emulate their energy. And I think the way to do that is focus on how the other people in the business that are succeeding are acting. You know, because you can really learn a lot.
We had some incredible mentors. Even our moderators at the BMI workshop, Pat Cook and Rick Fryer, they - on the very first day of the program - were such an example of what teamwork looks like and what partnership looks like. We saw how well they worked together, that was what we held onto. And I think it's so much easier to weather the storm when you're focusing on partnership and teamwork. And that's something that we've picked up, and I think it's helped us along the way because we had role models that were examples of that strong partnership.
Kate: Yeah. I think a big lesson we've learned is that the best collaborations come out of everybody appreciating everyone else's skillset and not trying to overshadow someone with their own ideas. Knowing that that person who came aboard the project is there because they're a genius at this thing, and it's our job to just like, sit back and give them, you know, our contribution and then let them do their genius work. I truly believe if you view all of your collaborators as geniuses, you can't go wrong, because everybody's just gonna feel so good about what they're adding. Whatever the thing may be.
Hayley: I love that.
Amy: What a great perspective, yeah.
Hayley: It feels like a very feminine perspective to have. I think like, when I work with other women, there's usually that undercurrent of making people feel valued and feel seen and seeing them as knowing what they're doing.
Amy: Well, and the focus on collaboration rather than a competition. Like, we're not here to prove, “Oh, I'm better than you” or whatever. Like it's - we're here to make a thing together. We're here to make art together.
Kate: Yeah. Absolutely. .
It takes ego out of it. And simultaneously, if everyone else is doing the same thing, then it's this beautiful ego cycle where I'm feeding your ego and you're feeding mine, but like, I'm not trying to put my ego on yours.
(Music)
Amy: I'd love to hear each of you speak about your womanhood and what it means to you and has meant to you and how it fits into your identity.
Elyssa: Sure. I love it because it is, you know, it's almost like it's the water that we're swimming in, so we forget that we are in it sometimes. But that's such a beautiful question, and I would say the thing about my womanhood that I think about the most, and I try to channel the most when I'm writing music or writing songs, is the generational hand-me-downs that are given from woman to woman along the way. I've always tried to take what has been handed down to me, and sift through that and think about what I want to hand down to other women. And in my case, because people do hear our songs, it's just little messages. Every song, every lyric, every musical phrase could be like a message in a bottle that you get to ship off to someone who hears it. And so that to me is like handing off - what am I handing off in my womanhood to other women?
So I like to think about that, and it really always comes back to the positive stuff. I really wanna hand out messages of self-love and self-compassion because there just should be more of that. And there should also be more messages of women celebrating other women. You know, if we're not all cheering each other on every opportunity we have, then we're not doing it right. ‘Cause that is what is going to help us be empowered. Too often in the media, and even in music, women are pitted against each other. And so, I think that the songs that Kate and I write really, really try to focus on women celebrating each other and cheering each other on. Overall, when I think about my womanhood, that is what I'm trying to do with it.
Kate: I guess just to build on that, I think that it's our responsibility to reach down when you've ascended a ladder rung and help other women up the way that we've been helped up by people who we really looked up to who, who helped us in any way, whether it be mentorship or sending us off on some opportunity. Passing on opportunities is a big thing that we've really benefited from, and we try to do the same for other women as well.
I guess the thing that just keeps coming to my mind is that I think a lot of women feel this biological need to like, care for things. And I think that that comes across in art as well. It's a caution and a deep care for others that I think ultimately makes the world a better place, when things are written with that feminine energy of helping others. That just resonates, I guess, with me. Elyssa always says that I treat everybody like they're a small injured woodland creature.
Elyssa: That is how she approaches every person in her life. All of her relationships are basically like, she tends to them like they're little birds in her hands. And I think it comes across in her lyrics, it really does. Even when I first met Kate, she was the social planner of the group that we were in. She was the people lover, and she was the collector of misfits. You know, everyone in the workshop who felt like they didn't quite fit in, we all gravitated towards Kate, myself included. And we just needed her energy, and she was the person everybody wanted to work with. And I think that's because of the way that she treats others.
Kate: So that's probably my womanhood.
Hayley: Cool. I have a question about the kind of broader industry for you both. If you could make one change, or two or three, to the theatre industry, what would it be?
Kate: It's hard not to be very influenced right now by our recent experience with Between the Lines. This is a really, really weird and hard time to put new work out in the world. There's a risk-averse feeling, not only for producers but also for ticket buyers. If people are gonna go to the theatre at all, they sort of are like, “Well, I'm gonna see the sure thing, I'm gonna see Into the Woods. ‘Cause A) You know, it's expensive, B) I have to wear a mask and like it's a whole thing.”
There's not this free-for-all feeling of like, “Let's go see everything exciting and new!” the way I feel things felt maybe even five years ago, pre-pandemic. I wish for the theatre industry that renewed hunger for new musicals - things that you haven't heard of before or that are not based on something you know super well - that there becomes a renewed investment, as theatre goers and theatre makers, for that to have a place where it can succeed and thrive again.
We had a really, really tough time. Not only because of COVID. COVID set us back so, so far. We were in fact about to have our first preview - we were having a lot of struggles because of COVID itself and the restrictions and the fact of like, everybody coming back to this industry without totally clear guidelines. So that was a struggle in and of itself. And then our whole cast got COVID. So we basically lost two weeks of previews and we had to sell everything back. And financially, we just couldn't recover from that, especially because tickets were not selling ahead of time. It's just people are not planning life in that way. So we were selling out day-of, but that was not enough to keep us going or sustained. And you just wanna like, scream it to the world: “No, please, buy your tickets ahead of time!” ‘Cause that's the only way that these new musicals can keep going. And so many theatre shows - not just us, look at everything that's closing.
Hayley: That's actually also, I feel like, underreported to theatre fans. Those of us who are creators know that, but like, for people who just love theatre and show up to the new stuff, they don't necessarily know that.
Kate: Yeah.
Amy: So theatre patrons who are listening, buy your tickets early, buy ahead of time.
Elyssa: And seeing new work too. Supporting the new work, I think, is really important for people in the industry and people who just love seeing theatre.
Kate: ‘Cause that's the only way you're gonna continue to see new voices, new perspectives. Otherwise, it is going to be a decade of revivals and things. And those are great, and we love revivals.
Hayley: And more jukebox musicals.
Kate: And jukebox musicals can also be amazing. But if you want new, exciting work, then your job as a theatre goer is to truly put in the work to support those shows.
Amy: And to take a chance on things, like you were saying, yeah. I think our relationship with risk the last few years has been so turned on its head and just so wild. I think we all need to get a little comfortable with risk in this space again.
Hayley: Producers as well. It's easy to say on the creator end of things. I would personally like to see some new exciting voices that we haven't heard from, like, a lot more. And I think the people who are holding the the keys need to make those choices as well.
Amy: And those voices exist. I mean, we're here, we're writing things.
Kate: Just wanna scream out to the world that all of these amazing songwriters are training and learning the craft and writing some of the most amazing things. We have this true fount of great writers. And I just wish there were more platforms for all of those voices to be heard and seen. I think we as a world are ready. Let's make room for that, you know?
Elyssa: There are so many hungry musical theatre writers out there - who aren't necessarily pop stars or TikTok sensations - who will write the heck out of a new musical if you are a producer and you want a new writing team. There are so many people who are hungry and eager and so very talented. I think more chances being taken on people who aren't names - it would just do wonders for this industry. Just because no one knows your name does not mean that you don't have something incredible to contribute. It's not about being famous. It's about what your message is and what your heart is and who you are. I think more producers taking chances on talented people, not just because they have followers, that would be game-changing for this industry.
Kate: Absolutely.
Hayley: Yeah.
Elyssa: Yeah, I just think in general, the way to create the next big hit is by being innovative. You can't predict what that next big thing is going to be, but making bold choices is the way to get there. I even think, in terms of casting, this is something I feel very passionately about, I would love to see more body positivity, body diversity, in the casting that we see on stage, because representation is everything. And if you are sitting there and you're seeing a whole bunch of people who look like you, it's just a different way of taking in the story. Let's wow some people with our choices in terms of body diversity in casting. And, you know, then the follows will come, because people will want more of what they see.
Amy: Last year, at the Olney Theatre in Maryland, Marcia Milgrom Dodge directed a production of Beauty and the Beast. And Jade Jones, who identifies as a queer plus-size Black woman, was cast as Belle, as the lead. And it blew up. People loved it. People were hungry for it. So much so that they actually are doing a revival of the production this year with the same cast. There are so many people who would look at that casting and say, “Oh, that’s a big risk. Like, that might not turn out well.” But it might turn out great. And like you said, Elyssa, if we just keep making safe choices, then the industry's gonna stagnate.
Elyssa: Yeah, I think bold choices always lead to something good. Absolutely.
(Music)
Amy: I would love to hear from each of you - what are you most proud of in your career, in your life, in your work?
Kate: I am most proud of our work on Between the Lines, because to me, that is truly eight years of a labor of love. I think about who we were when we started that project and who we are now and how much we've grown through those eight years and how hungry we were and how, just like, big our dreams were when we started it back in 2014. And I still picture the day we finally get to sit in a Broadway theatre and watch that show.
I'm so proud of the production we just did at Second Stage. I'm so proud of that cast. I'm, of course, so proud of the other shows we've done - The Book Thief, and even our very first musical we ever wrote, Camp Wish No More. I remember, like, looking at that 150-page script or whatever it was and being like, “I can't believe we made this.” But yeah, I don't know, there's something about Between the Lines that has just always felt like, against all odds, we've persevered.
Elyssa: Yeah, I completely agree with that. I think Between the Lines, for us, was the first major indication that the two of us made the right life choice by partnering up as a songwriting team. And, you know, talk about risk taking. It's not typically the path that you tell your parents you're going down and they're super proud and excited for you to have financial stability, ‘cause it's that you never know when your next paycheck is coming from or if there's even gonna be a paycheck, because you work on the project for six years and just hope that one day someone might buy a ticket to it. So it's a tough industry to commit to. And I think Between the Lines, when we got that job, it was at least an indication that the risks we had taken to partner up and become songwriters was the right choice.
I think that the thing that I'm the most proud of is the collaboration itself with Kate, and the partnership that we have practiced for the past 12 years. Because it, to me, is such a rare connection when you are able to spend so much time with someone, work on so many things, get through so many challenges that are thrown at you on a daily basis, and somehow get through them together and produce work on a continual basis and not give up. And I think the partnership between two women doing that is so special, because we've kept each other humble and we've also allowed each other to be strong in ways that I don't know that we could have been as strong or as humble if we were just working by ourselves.
The collaboration has always been a checks and balances and an example of unconditional support between two women. And I don't know that everybody finds that when they head out into the world and look for a business partner. But we found it as business partners, and it's taught me so much about friendship and business. That makes me the most proud, is just what we've been through over the past 12 years, and being able to sustain a healthy, empowering, ever-growing, ever-expanding business relationship as two females.
Hayley: That's beautiful.
Amy: I love that so much, I couldn't love it more. We hope in 12 years to have as strong a partnership as you guys, and to be able to say we've produced such amazing work.
Elyssa: I see that for you too. It's like, it's so special when you find it. Then you are an example of that for us, and you're an example of that for the people who come see whatever amazing feats you accomplish. So it's just, more and more examples of that out in the world is amazing. Even just talking to you and seeing you today is really empowering for us. So thank you.
Amy: Aww, right back at you. Thank you.
Hayley: Thank you. If you had like one line or two lines of advice to give up-and-coming women songwriters in the business, what would that be?
Kate: There's the one about persistence that always comes to mind. Kristen Anderson Lopez would quote it to us, and I feel it's important to pay it forward. Basically, it's like nothing can take the place of persistence. No matter how genius you are, no matter where you went to school, and this is paraphrasing - persistence is the only thing. I think we are living proof of that, because every time we failed, we just sat down and we wrote another song. And we forged ahead that way. Everything that seemed like a failure became a window to something else.
Camp Wish No More, the entire show that we wrote that we thought was gonna be our, like, ticket to the big time - nothing happened with it. And you know, looking back, that that was absolutely the right path. But it was the thing that got us Between the Lines. And then Between the Lines was the thing that got us Olaf’s Frozen Adventure. And everything becomes a building block on top of another building block. And I just have to push young writers and people, just keep going. Keep going, keep writing, keep doing the thing that you love, and your spirit will shine through that and your work will continue to carve paths for you.
Elyssa: That's so well said, Kate. I love that. We often talk about what it would be like to show our 2010 versions of ourselves what we are now. When we think about it, we cry a little bit, because it's just like, it's so hard when you're in the moment to root for yourself. For some reason, it's ingrained in a lot of women to serve others first before serving yourself. And I think advice to any other person in the world would be to have an unlimited amount of kindness for yourself, because it will always work out. No matter what's going on, be kind to yourself. Because you would be kind to another person, and if you would treat someone else like that, you should do the same unto yourself.
Hayley: Thank you so much.
Amy: It has been a wonderful conversation. Can you please tell our listeners where they can find you on the internet?
Kate: Sure. Our website is https://www.samselanderson.com, and we're also on Instagram and Twitter @SamselAnderson. And individually, we're @kateoboyleanderson and @elyssalynnesamsel.
(Music)
Hayley: Thank you for listening to the Women & Theatre Podcast. We’re your hosts, Hayley Goldenberg…
Amy: And Amy Andrews. If you like what you heard, subscribe and give us a 5-star review wherever you listen.
Hayley: You can also follow us on social at womenandtheatreproject to make sure you never miss an episode.
Amy: The music for this show is written by talented Women & Theatre community member Chloe Geller.
Hayley: Thanks for listening, everyone. See you next time!
Amy: Bye!
