S1E10: Kayla Davion
In this episode, Hayley and Amy speak with Broadway actor Kayla Davion about following your values and figuring out what makes you you, defining your own dreams and the stories you want to tell, recognizing the beautiful complexity of womanhood, and making the theatre industry equitable for all. Scroll down for episode notes and transcript!
Episode Notes
Guest: Kayla Davion
Hosts: Hayley Goldenberg and Amy Andrews
Music: Chloe Geller
Episode Resources:
Kayla’s theatrical projects discussed in the interview include:
Perpetual Sunshine and the Ghost Girls
Guest Bios
Kayla Davion (she/her) - Broadway: Tina: The Tina Turner Musical (Tina), Waitress the Musical (Dawn US, Ensemble), King Kong (Ann Darrow US, Ensemble). Tv: “The Good Fight.",“Power Book III: Raising Kanan.” Film: "Better Nate Than Ever." Kayla is also a Chita Rivera Recipient. She sends all the Love and Gratitude to her Alum (BSU), her agents at Nicolosi, managers at Untitled Entertainment, beautiful family and incredible Tribe. "Thank you God for never withholding your promises... Lead with Love!”
Find Kayla Online:
Instagram: @KaylaDavion @AffirmedLiving
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Episode Transcript
(Music)
Hayley: Hello, beautiful people, and welcome to the Women & Theatre Podcast! We're your hosts, Hayley Goldenberg…
Amy: …and Amy Andrews. Grab a cup of coffee and join us as we explore the experiences of women and nonbinary people in the theatre industry.
Hayley: On the pod, we interview people from different backgrounds with varying levels of industry experience and professional roles.
Amy: Our goal is to build community, identify the unique benefits that women and nonbinary folks bring to theatrical spaces, and pool our collective wisdom to break down the barriers we continue to face.
(Music)
Amy: In today’s episode, we speak with Kayla Davion, an actor whose Broadway credits include Tina: The Tina Turner Musical, Waitress, and King Kong. She also has several film and TV credits, including “The Good Fight”, “Power Book III: Raising Kanan”, and Better Nate Than Ever. Kayla has received the Chita Rivera Award for Outstanding Ensemble, and she is a proud alum of Ball State University.
Hayley: Hello, everybody. We are here with the incredible Kayla Davion. Kayla, can you please introduce yourself, share your pronouns, and tell us a little bit about what you do in the theatrical spaces.
Kayla: I'm Kayla Davion. What's up, everybody? My pronouns are she/her/hers. I am an actor. Recently, you probably have seen me play Tina in the Tina Turner Musical on Broadway.
Hayley: Kayla, can you tell us a little bit about how you came to your theatrical work?
Kayla: Long story short, I didn't get into theatre until my senior year of high school. I used to think that theatre was a cult.
Amy: It kind of is.
Hayley: I think it is. Yeah.
Kayla: It very much is. And I feel like if you're not in it at a young age, you don't really know about it. So I was doing a lot of different extracurricular activities. I ended up doing an all-state theatre program, and they did a festival and we did a show called Memphis. And so I got to meet all these students around the state - I'm from Chicago, woot woot. So I got to meet a lot of students around Illinois in different schools, and it was the first time I had ever seen that an African American woman could play a lead role.
It also was the first time that I found a different sense of the word “ensemble”. Creating this show together, like with the crew, with the cast, was outstanding to me. And so basically, I was like, “This is clearly what I'm supposed to be doing for the rest of my life.” It was my senior year, so that means decide fast. And I originally was gonna go to school for psychology, but I instead was like, “Let me Google the top 10 colleges for musical theatre.”
So I saw NYU, all of these other schools, and then Ball State's packet came in the mail. And I looked down at the packet, and my gut was like, “Go there.” And so that's what I did. I wouldn't necessarily recommend this way to anybody else. However, it worked for me. And I trusted in the process, so I was very, very grateful.
Hayley: How did you find the process of navigating, like, post graduating and everything?
Kayla: Well, college was already difficult because I didn't have a lot of information. I didn't have coaching sessions. I was in choir, so I sang all the time, but I never had voice lessons, so everything was pretty new for me. So I had to work my way up in college to even understand the basics.
And when I graduated college, I graduated booking Waitress the Musical on Broadway the week of my graduation actually. So…
Hayley: That's pretty cool.
Amy: Amazing!
Kayla: Yeah, it was super dope. I did a New York showcase and I met my agents. And Waitress ended up being like, a last minute audition right before I came back to school for my finals week. And so I came back to school, and they were like, “Hey, they want you to come back for this, and they wanna know - if you booked this gig, could you start the next day?”
Amy: Oh my God.
Hayley: Wow.
Kayla: I was like, no.
(laughter)
Amy: Good for you!
Hayley: Boundaries 101, everybody.
Kayla: Boundaries 101, right? The reason I said no was because I was gonna be like, the first person in my family to graduate with a degree. So it was really important to me, as an African American woman in this society, to have my papers. And so I was like, “No”. But they were like, “Okay, well, still go to the audition anyway. We'll tell them.” I don't know if they actually ever told them, but I was like, “Okay”. So I flew in, took the bus down, did the audition, took the bus back to the airport, flew back out.
Hayley: Wow.
Kayla: Which was on a Tuesday. Wednesday, I was in the library taking a final, and my agents kept calling my phone. And I was ignoring the call, ‘cause I was like, “I'm in the library taking a final, you know, shhh.” So I called them back when the final was over and I was like, “Helloooo”, you know, “What’s up? You rang?” You know, and then they were like, we just wanted to let you know that you booked your debut on Broadway, and they are willing to wait for you to graduate.
Amy: That's amazing.
Hayley: That's such a good lesson in, like, set those boundaries and knowing your worth and being like, “Look, this is important to me.” And if they really want you, like, they'll make it work.
Amy: Right. And knowing and living your values too. Yeah, that's really awesome.
Kayla: Yeah, I like to tell that story to everybody, ‘cause I really do believe what's for you is for you. And I know you hear it all the time, but it's so true. And the more you're willing to follow your values and your morals, the more things will come to you. The right things too. And I believe the right things come to you instead of you having to chase for the wrong thing.
Hayley: Mm-hmm.
Kayla: So that happened. And I graduated, and I moved straight to New York. So post-graduation was interesting, because nobody that I knew from my school had moved to New York yet. I was blessed to book Broadway, but I was by myself, just in the city trying to figure it out. I grew up at a young age, but being in the city, I think, grows you even quicker. I was the youngest person in my cast, everybody else was like 30, you know? So I was like, “Okay, I'm this 21-year-old, 22-year-old, like, in this city trying to figure out life.” It was extremely fun, but also extremely difficult. It can fill you with fear when you're by yourself for so long without knowing people.
Hayley: Definitely.
Kayla: And so I had to navigate learning how to be by myself in a different way.
Hayley: If you had one piece of advice that you learned from that experience for young people who are coming into the city, is there anything that you wanna share?
Kayla: I would probably say find your balance of what makes you you and what makes you happy being you. Especially because we all wanna do it so badly, you know? This industry is filled with people who are passionate about their work. And so when you're placed in these big climates, you can forget very easily what makes you you. Especially in a world where you're all auditioning and going after the same parts. So I think the greatest thing that I learned was finding the things that make me happy.
You know, theatre is our passion, but it also is our job. That was the biggest lesson that I had to learn, in knowing how much we sacrifice for our work, that it was even more important for me to find the things outside of my job that made me me. Even if it just meant taking walks in the park. I like nature, so I'm gonna go sit in nature today before I have to go to rehearsal. Very important.
Hayley: That's really good advice.
Amy: Yeah, cool.
(Music)
Amy: Kayla, can you tell us a little bit about what you've been working on creatively recently?
Kayla: Well, I've worked on a lot of different things. I met Hayley doing Perpetual Sunshine and the Ghost Girls. Since I ended Tina, I've been doing a lot of different workshops, which is what I was actually excited to do. I loved Tina, I also loved being able to close the show and be like, now I get to find my creative flow again. I get to figure out what makes Kayla Kayla - what do I like to do within the realm of this industry? I get to find my own breath of fresh air. I definitely wanna do TV/film again, I wanna get back into the mix. But I really wanna do workshops. I wanna get the chance to start developing things.
So I did a choreography workshop for this show called White Girl In Danger. It was so fun to be in the room and to get to create vocabulary for this show that's coming to Off-Broadway. After that, then we did Perpetual Sunshine and the Ghost Girls, which ended up being - I'm not gonna lie, I didn't know that it would be as special as it was. Getting to lead a company again, but in a different way was fun. And getting to create the story from the ground up based off of what our writers gave us was super cool to me. And I was like, “Yes, this is the kind of work I wanna do!”
Hayley: For those who don't know, it's an all women and gender expansive cast, women and nonbinary people, and it was just such a energized room full of brilliant, passionate people, and it felt so good to be there.
Kayla: And I also think it's just fun to work on original work. I love jukebox musicals, but I miss doing original work. New music that people wrote in their homes and had been working on for years. I was like, “Yes! And what made you find this line?” You know?
Hayley: Yeah, totally.
Kayla: So I did that, which was super cool. And then recently, I just finished a workshop for a new James Brown musical called Planet Funk, which was super cool. We were doing that one from the ground up, too. It's just so interesting watching people create original work. You're like, “This is a lot of work!”
Amy: You're talking to two writers, so we hear you. We get you.
Hayley: Yeah, definitely.
Kayla: I'm like, the work is - it's so hard. That's a lot. Being in these rooms again reminds me of just how much we all are learning together. Those are the things I've been working on recently, and you know, always auditioning. But I think right now, I am very interested in TV/film and developmental works, like new works. I don't wanna say I don't wanna do Broadway right now, ‘cause it's not fully true. But I've been on Broadway since I came to the city, which is fantastic. And now I'm excited to see what else is out there for my creative flow.
Amy: What a healthy perspective.
Kayla: Yeah, I remember when I was in Waitress, people kept asking me, “So you are like living the dream now?” Well, it depends on what you define the dream to be. For me, my dream is to be able to like, use my gifts in different areas of my life in the most expansive ways. And my dream is to continue to feel like I'm learning always, and to continue to feel happy doing the work. So for me, that doesn't mean Broadway, necessarily. It means all different kinds of art. It means being able to use my tools in different rooms. And knowing that I can keep dreaming.
Hayley: I also think it's really healthy, I hope for our listeners to hear too, because people are always shooting for the Broadway dream because it's considered widely to be the biggest stage, you know what I mean? But your dream is how you define it.
Kayla: It is, and you have to remember that it's also the story that you want to tell. And that goes back to sticking with your values and your morals. What stories do you wanna tell? Who do you wanna be in these pieces? What kind of characters do you wanna play? All of these things are important in deciding the art that you wanna be in.
Amy: So what are those stories for you? What are the stories that you wanna be a part of telling and the roles that you wanna play?
Kayla: Well, one - on a fun level, I love comedy, and I love learning the different technical sides of comedy. And I really love being in any art that allows me to have a sense of imaginary play. So whether that's me playing some kind of superhuman, supervillain - all of that stuff allows me to use my imaginary tools in a different way than what I get to do in a normal day. And it forces me to get out of my own head. You have no choice but to get out of your own way. I really wanna continue to tell the stories that force me to think outside the box and look crazy and silly and be okay with that.
I really like to be in the moment, so I don't think you'll ever see a nice photo of me. It's always some, like, random face I'm making. But I kind of prefer it that way, because I'm in the moment, I'm not posing for the photo. I'm like, I'm living in the moment and I'm probably gonna look crazy doing it, but that's okay. I wanna tell those stories.
And I also wanna tell stories that talk about African roots and our history and culture that I feel like hasn't gotten touched on, at least for me. I've been learning a lot about Uganda, and I really would like - I just want to tell stories of African motherlands [diaspora] and what it meant to be in those times. Anything that allows me to learn more history when it comes to our African motherlands and our ancestors would be really, really, really cool.
I also think outside of that, I wanna do a classical jazz musical. That style of musical theatre that I think everybody has been waiting to come back. It reminds me of the creation of musical theatre that we all navigated to in the first place. I love contemporary musical theatre, but I also miss the stylistic nature of where we started when we first created it. I want more shows like that to come back.
Hayley: Love it.
(Music)
Hayley: I wanna shift gears a little bit and talk about womanhood. Kayla, how do you see womanhood fitting into your identity? What does being a woman mean to you?
Kayla: You know, one thing that I have been pondering upon recently has been the identity of a woman when it comes to art. A lot of the time, we see men who are given the right to play all different kinds of characters, right? They are given this right to play that I don't think women are always given. I feel like Sutton Foster in Shrek was one of the first moments that I was like, “Oh, this woman gets to, like, play.” I feel like on a normal basis, a lot of the time, it has to be this beauty standard - there's a specific character type that you have to play, and you don't get to have a well rounded version of what womanhood looks like.
Amy: Right. You’re pretty or you're funny.
Kayla: Yeah. You have to be either one, but you don't get to be like, all of the above. And I'm like, but we are that. We are the epitome of beautiful complexity. And so, when it comes to womanhood, what I want to be showcased is the beautiful complexities that we have. Every woman that I know, every woman that I've come across, has so many different colors to them.
Hayley: Yep.
Amy: Yeah.
Kayla: And it is just incredible to see. So like, I wanna see that in the world that we're living in when it comes to this industry, when it comes to the pieces of art that we are creating. I'm still waiting. I'm not gonna say it's not happening, ‘cause I do think that people are making their way. And I think that we're getting more involved with different stories being told. Like even 1776 - even though it is a historical piece, just the fact that we are allowing women to play these parts is a whole different entity that we have not seen.
Hayley: For sure. I will say it's inspiring to see that many different bodies… Seeing so many genders, races, cultures represented on stage, that is kind of beautiful to see. Like, it's pretty cool.
Kayla: Yeah. It's important. It's so important. And you're like, wow. You have so many different character types in one character. That's awesome. So when I think of womanhood, I think of beautiful complexity.
Hayley: I love that.
Amy: Kayla, in your work, [how] have you seen your gender benefiting you as an artist? And then conversely, how have you seen it limiting you?
Kayla: Well, I think playing Tina, my gender definitely benefited me. Learning about this woman who was not only a rock star, but like, she was fearless, and she had to become fearless. As life went on and different tragedies happened in her life, she found a new understanding of what fearless meant. And it doesn't mean that you are forced into it. It means that you get to choose it.
And so my gender role being a woman in that moment was very benefiting, because I do think that it inspired a lot of women. And it inspired a lot of women to choose their own paths, and to find joy in the paths that they are choosing for themselves and that nobody can dictate that future for them, but they have their own control of destiny. So that was kind of cool to be able to experience gender in that realm.
I think that gender has been limiting for me when it comes to auditioning for shows, because we have gotten - I mean, as any young person growing up, you're looking at social media, you're looking at all of these things of what you're supposed to “be.” And I think that it gets in our way a lot, because insecurities grow at a young age, primarily because of the things that we see and watch and hear.
Hayley: I imagine even more so as a young black woman too in America.
Kayla: Absolutely. And being in an industry where you don't necessarily feel like you belong per se, and you're trying to make your way to belong is already one thing. But to then find descriptions of what you believe a beautiful black woman looks like is even more insane to me, quite frankly.
So I think that gender can be limiting in these audition rooms, because you very much walk in and have to tell yourself the story of what you thought you were supposed to be. I have to unlearn a lot of stuff consistently - for any woman, not even just like race, but like, for body standards, for what your skin is supposed to look like. We are consistently having to unlearn. Even with watching the people behind the table watch you. It's hard. It's very difficult. And I think that gender can be limiting in that way because you're always like, “I have to look like this and be like - act like this.”
Hayley: Do men do that? Do men have that conversation with themselves?
Kayla: I'm sure they do in some ways.
Amy: Yeah. But I think that gaze does fall on women and on nonbinary people in different ways, just because we live with that gaze in our lives outside the audition room. And it carries with it all of these expectations of being who other people want you to be instead of being yourself.
Kayla: It very much does, I'm very much of a “tomboy,” whatever. I don't really like wearing dresses, unless I am like, “I'm gonna go out today and wear a dress,” you know? But that's not my first gig. My first thing is like, I'm about to wear some dress pants or some sweats or something like that, or I could put on a baggy top and some baggy jeans and call it a day. But if I walk into the audition room like this, you're gonna be like, “Oh, she can't play this type.”
Hayley: Yeah. I will say as a director coming up, that's something I'm trying to think about a lot is: What are my own biases because of what we've been taught about how type plays a role in musical theatre? Just thinking about how can I be more expansive in my imagination of this, so that I can be open to being surprised by what someone might bring in? We can think beyond like, what is somebody wearing or what is their hair color, right?
Kayla: Yeah. It's a lot of unlearning, and I think within the unlearning is what's allowing me to play even more, because I think that sometimes can pull you back from playing. I watch - even when men sing, they play with their voices in a different way than women do. Women don't always go for certain notes or go for certain sounds because it doesn't sound pretty enough.
(Music)
Hayley: If you could make one change, or two or three, to the theatre industry at large, what would it be?
Kayla: Oh my god. Talk about how to make things equitable for all, right? I definitely think the way that we pay our actors and the way that we handle negotiations when it comes to royalties and the way that we do the work in the room has to be changed. If I could change anything, it would be that - financial negotiations, not just for actors but crew and stuff too, how it is divided.
It takes a community to build a show. I always talk about community, because I'm like, it is not just an actor on stage, it’s not just the director who's directing the thing. Like, there are so many people on the outskirts who are not seen, who do not get the funds that they deserve, they don't get the recognition that they deserve. Watching what my Tina dresser - her name is Megan Groh, I love her - what she did to make me feel comfortable as Tina, along with my Tina wig and makeup designer Kayla, was outstanding to me. And I used to just look at them and be like, what? I don't understand how you're doing all this. And costumers do not get paid nearly anything. And the work that they're doing is out of this world.
And then think about the costumers who are working with the ensemble, and they're having to dress five different women at the same time. They're getting paid about $5. I don't get it. Like, it really confuses me. And they're making the same sacrifices that we're making when we have to be at work. Granted, actors are the people who are on the stage, but they're not just the people who are creating the show. So I really think negotiations in terms of financial - the finances have to be changed for the community.
Hayley: The finances of theatre are such a mess.
Amy: It's a mess. And I question whether it serves us as a community to have all of the contracts negotiated separately, because it creates this hierarchy and this sense of competition and this zero sum game. Whereas you're right, it's a community that works to build a show, and we all contribute to it, so the pay should reflect that.
Kayla: Yeah, so definitely that. I wish that I could change the way that people see and respect our swings and covers. The people who I feel like just don't ever get the credit and do the brunt of the work. And I wish that people didn't think of that role as like, “Ugh, I don't wanna do this.” You know, because it's such a beauty in what they do. And it takes special individuals. I wish the mindset and the recognition would change for swings and covers and alternates and stuff across the board.
Amy: Yeah.
Hayley: Yeah. That's a really good one. I feel like it's coming from this story that has been told through the media about what show business is like. Anyone who actually works in theatre knows that the swings and the covers are the most talented people, because they have to be able to do everyone's job, basically. And they have to know every single piece of what goes into the entire show.
Kayla: And then honestly, I really just want more shows that show inclusivity, and whatever that - it's so much that goes under that umbrella. But I feel like, if I could wave a magic wand, it would be more work that actually is inclusive to everyone. I would love that. That would be beautiful. And it doesn't have to be like, one show. If there's a multitude of shows, that's great. I'm gonna go see this show tonight and this show tomorrow and then this show the other day, because they all got different forms of inclusivity.
Hayley: And giving people the opportunity to be multifaceted too, right? If there are more shows that are doing that work, then you get to see that no community is monolithic. There's so much color to be found in every individual. I like your magic wand world, Kayla. I wanna live there too.
Kayla: Basically my magic wand is like, I just want everybody to feel respected.
Hayley/Amy: Yeah!
Kayla: If we could move in that way and everybody actually felt respected, imagine the kind of work that we would be doing. And imagine - like, people would be happy. They would be consistently happy coming to work and happy to make the sacrifices, you know?
Hayley: Yeah. Those rooms shouldn't be the exception, like, that should be the rule.
Amy: And that's such a great bottom line. It's such a great thing to aim for, is just a space where everyone feels respected. Like, yes. Who doesn't want that, right?
Kayla: And I think if I could add one more thing…
Hayley/Amy: Please!
Kayla: It would just be to allow our actors, our costumers, our crew, everybody, to have a life, okay? Give us more days off. Let us get some more personal days, please. Let us get an actual holiday, at least one holiday with the fam. We'll be so much happier that way. It would be fantastic.
Amy: Absolutely.
Hayley: Yeah. I love that. Just one last question for you - what are you most proud of in your life and in your work?
Kayla: I think I'm most proud of how far I've come. I have to remind myself so often because you're on the wheel, you forget to get off of the wheel and see the work that you've done. I'm most proud of working my way up and remaining who I was in the process.
I'm very, very, very proud of myself for allowing myself to be in a world where I can learn and be okay with that. And not forcing myself to have an end goal, but allowing myself to take the markers and know this is another thing for my toolbox of my inner being. And not falling into the habit of materializing things and being like, “If I don't do this, then I'm not gonna be good enough.” You know? Yeah, I'm very, very proud of myself for the work that I've done thus far in learning and allowing myself to remain who I am.
Amy: Kayla, where can people find you on the internet?
Kayla: You can find me on Instagram, under @KaylaDavion. Also follow my affirmation page Affirmed Living.
Hayley: Thank you so much, Kayla. You are amazing.
Amy: Thank you, Kayla. What a pleasure.
Kayla: Thank you all for having me, I appreciate it.
(Music)
Hayley: Thank you for listening to the Women & Theatre Podcast. We’re your hosts, Hayley Goldenberg…
Amy: And Amy Andrews. If you like what you heard, subscribe and give us a 5-star review wherever you listen.
Hayley: You can also follow us on social @womenandtheatreproject to make sure you never miss an episode.
Amy: The music for this show is written by talented Women & Theatre community member Chloe Geller.
Hayley: Thanks for listening, everyone. See you next time!
Amy: Bye!
