S5E3: Taking Control of Your Career
In this episode, Hayley and Amy dive into the juicy topic of Taking Control of Your Career. We discuss finding the “why” behind your goal, breaking it down into manageable steps, identifying your resources, building systems of accountability, and more. We also highlight Wakako Yamauchi as part of our Women’s History Month Playwrights You Should Know series, in partnership with Expand the Canon. Scroll down for episode notes and transcript!
Episode Notes
Hosts: Hayley Goldenberg and Amy Andrews
Music: Chloe Geller
Episode Resources:
Check out our Season 4 discussion about Goal Setting!
Visualization resource: Creative Visualization by Shakti Gawain
Women’s History Month:
Expand the Canon - And the Soul Shall Dance by Wakako Yamauchi
Trailblazers of the Week:
Rachel Chavkin - SDC Foundation One on One Conversation
Thanks for listening!
Who do you want to hear from next on the Women & Theatre Podcast? Nominate someone here.
The Women & Theatre Podcast is created and produced by Hayley Goldenberg and Amy Andrews. Please like, comment, subscribe, follow us on Instagram and Facebook, and consider making a donation to support our work. Thank you for listening!
Episode Transcript
(Music)
Hayley: Hello beautiful people, and welcome back to the Women & Theatre Podcast! We’re your hosts, Hayley Goldenberg…
Amy: …and Amy Andrews. Grab a cozy beverage and join us as we talk to women and gender-expansive folks about their experiences at the intersection of womanhood and theatre.
Hayley: On the pod, we cultivate open conversations across identities and professional roles…
Amy: We look for opportunities to support one another in growing our careers…
Hayley: And we pool our collective wisdom to build the equitable theatrical spaces of the future.
(Music)
Amy: Hello, hello, beautiful people! We are so happy to be with you all today. Hi Hayley, how are you?
Hayley: Oh, I'm thriving. And by thriving, I mean surviving and trying to thrive. How are you?
Amy: You know what? I'm doing good today. I'm having a good day, good week. Do we want to dive into Roses and Thorns? Would you like to go first?
Hayley: I would love that. My Rose for this week is I've gotten to work on my musical Faye with my lovely collaborators, Julia and Chloe. We are taking this week to do - what we're calling an in-city retreat, which is basically just putting aside several hours throughout the week and doing a bunch of work in a row, which has been our favorite way to work. And I haven't gotten to work on this show since December, so it's lovely to be back with the girlies and doing what I love and remembering why I do all this stuff. So that's my Rose.
I have two Thorns this week, Amy, I'm gonna be real. It's been a rough one. All of the crazy stuff going on in the world and politically… Things are looking really bleak right now. I'm trying to focus on small actions I can take to make a difference in my communities. But just personally, how some of these issues are affecting me and my loved ones just has me feeling down and scared for the future. That's the Thorn. The other Thorn is just professionally, I'm dealing with a lot of early-in-the-season imposter syndrome, and you know, it's rearing its ugly head again. We made a promise a few seasons ago to not spend so much time talking about imposter syndrome on this podcast, because …
Amy: …It's a tool of the patriarchy!
Hayley: Exactly. But that being said, it's still real, and…yeah, I'm just, I'm feeling very lost right now in that. And it's hard to come on here and be honest about that, because I like to show up as the confident girl that I want to be for all of y'all listening and for myself. But that's real, that's where I'm coming from this week. So those are my Roses and Thorns. How about you, Amy?
Amy: Yeah. I'm sure a lot of our listeners are feeling the same way about what's going on in the world. And I want to highlight that we are working on ways to get those small action steps out to our community. So stay tuned, sign up for our email list, follow us on social, and we're gonna be sharing tips for things that you can do - like, little things, manageable things - to make the world a little bit better of a place. And I'm really excited about those initiatives we're working on.
Yeah, so my Rose for this week is similar to yours, actually. I'm making really good progress in both of my writing projects, on To The Lighthouse and on CYCLES, and I'm really excited. As you know, Hayley, I've been working toward a complete first draft of script and score for both of those shows, and for both of them, it suddenly feels within reach and feels like it's gonna get done in the next few months or year. I'm excited to have these stories out into the world and have people start to be able to engage with them in meaningful ways. I'm so excited about it.
My Thorn is also the world. That is, that is it. Other than that, I feel like things are going swimmingly, and it's sometimes I feel a little bit of guilt about - like, the world is falling apart, but my life is going pretty well right now, you know? But I think it's important to recognize that in myself and to be like, it's okay. Like, we can celebrate small joys, personal joys, even while we are working to fight against oppression and to try and make sure that people have the rights that they deserve and are able to live the lives, the full, fulfilling lives that they deserve.
Hayley: I want to circle back to something that we say on here a lot which is Many things can be true at one time
Amy: Amen! Sure can.
Hayley: On the note of many things being true and things that we talk about a lot on this podcast, Amy, will you introduce what we're going to be talking about today?
Amy: Absolutely! So I'm so excited to have this discussion with you, Hayley. This is stuff we talk about all the time, and I'm excited to invite our listeners into the conversation. So last season on the podcast, we had a great discussion about goal setting. We talked about some goals that you and I are personally working toward and how we think about setting and working toward our goals.
So this season, we want to kind of expand upon that conversation, and we want to talk about how - once you've set a goal, what do you do next? How do you work toward that goal? How do you keep yourself accountable? How do you set up systems to set yourself up for success in working toward your goals? So yeah, that's what we're gonna talk about today. It feels really timely, because we're recording this toward the beginning of the year, when a lot of people are grappling with New Year's resolutions and resolutions that may have already a bit fallen to the wayside.
Hayley: Hopefully, this can be helpful for you as you try to kind of reorient to what it is that you wanted at the beginning of the year. Or maybe something that you've just been working towards for a long time that you want to finally kind of smash the ceiling on and get to the next level.
(Musical transition)
Amy: But first, for Women’s History Month, we’ve teamed up with Expand the Canon to bring you a series of Playwrights You Should Know About.
Hayley: This week’s Playwright You Should Know About is Wakako Yamauchi. Wakako Yamauchi was a groundbreaking Japanese American writer, poet, and painter. Born in California in 1924 to two immigrant parents working as itinerant farmers, Yamauchi grew up in a rural community with a house just big enough to fit on the back of a truck. At the age of 17, she and her family were sent to an internment camp, where she would remain for the next year and a half. While there, Yamauchi started her artistic career working on the camp newspaper as a cartoonist.
After the war, she wrote And the Soul Shall Dance, which won the 1977 Los Angeles Drama Critics Circle Award for the best new play and was later produced for public broadcast. In 1980, Joseph Papp, the founder of The Public, produced a successful run of Yamauchi's The Music Lesson as a response to the backlash about lack of opportunities for Asian American artists in theatre. Yamauchi never stopped writing, publishing works into her 70s and 80s.
If you're looking for a wistful story about immigration, identity, and the American dream, check out her play, And the Soul Shall Dance, written in 1976. Learn more about the play and Yamauchi on This Is a Classic, a podcast by Expand the Canon.
(Musical transition)
Amy: Hayley, do you want to start off by telling the listeners what you're excited about about this topic?
Hayley: Yeah, absolutely. I am a control enthusiast, as I like to say. Maybe I've said it on the podcast before, maybe I haven't. But if you know me in real life, you've probably heard me say this. This is my reframe for myself about being a control freak. I'm a control enthusiast. It's way more fun.
I'm a control enthusiast, and doing a theatrical career - doing any kind of freelancing, honestly - as a person who likes to have control of how things go and likes things to be fair and likes things to be a meritocracy, can be really challenging. And so this idea of “How do we take control of our careers?” in a career path that is really so out of our control, I guess.
Amy: Well, it feels out of our control a lot of the time, right?
Hayley: Right. There are so many elements that we don't have control over. It is what brings me peace. So that's why I'm excited to talk about it, is this is sort of how I cope. And I hope that for those of you who are control enthusiasts out there or who just struggle with the circuitous nature, the winding paths that we take… I hope that this can be helpful to you as a tool to add to your arsenal for how you can start to really take control of the things that are within your control in this career.
Amy: Yeah. Yeah, I find it really helpful, especially when things feel out of my control, to focus on, “Okay, what can I do?” instead of what I can't do. Because so often, the “what I can't do” feels super overwhelming. So Hayley, when you set a goal for yourself, like once you've decided, “Okay, this is the goal I'm setting for myself,” what's the first thing you do?
Hayley: I really like to check in with my values and my “why”. Again, bringing up things that are consistently on the podcast. But, you know, thinking about the goal that I'm working towards and then how does it connect with the things that matter to me? So let's say I have a goal of a production of one of my shows. My “why” might be something like “I want to reach more people with my art,” and that connects back to wanting to create community, and that's one of my values.
Amy: I read somewhere once - I don't really remember where this came from, because it's so ingrained in me - but I like to ask a series of questions of why to find the “why” under the “why” under the “why.” Which, in the end, connects back to my core values inevitably, which is great. I think you just gave a good example of like, well, why do I want to… Let's say I want to finish writing this draft of this show this year. Well, why do I want to do that? So I can get it up on its feet and people can see it. Well, why do I want to do that? So people can find meaning and value in it, and it can touch their lives. And well, why do I want to do that? Oh, it connects back to my value of community, because I want to build a community around this show that's based on the shared values that this show espouses.
So yeah, that's a little example of how that process could look. But yeah, basically starting with the top-level “why” and digging down and digging down. Because sometimes, it's hard to know exactly why we're doing something. We can have a strong drive, like, “Oh, I really want to do something, and I know it's important, but I'm not quite sure why.” So taking that time to figure out like, “Oh, this is connected to this core value” or like, “Oh, this is the big-picture change that I think me accomplishing this goal will bring…” That can keep you on track.
And for me, I really like to write it down. That's a really important step in my process. Like, for each of my shows that I'm working on and projects that I'm working on, I have a Post-it note that has, like, “This is the why behind the why for this project.” So like, for example, for my show To the Lighthouse, we want the audience to leave that show feeling inspired to create their own art - to find their artistic vision and make it. And so that is the guiding light for that show. And every time I'm working on that show, even if it's just, like, a little lyrical thing that doesn't seem to have anything to do with that, I can look at my wall and see that Post-it note and remind myself, “Oh yeah, that's the end goal.” And so when you get lost on a project and it feels unimportant, then you can remind yourself, “Oh yeah, that's why I'm doing this.”
Hayley: Yeah. Or just in those hard moments where you're sitting in the uncomfortability of the gap between what you want and where you are. I think that “why” really helps me stay motivated. The other piece of this too, the other reason I think getting serious and specific on your “why” is helpful, is because you might discover that the superficial goal that you've come up with is actually not what you want. Like, what you want is something different. And doing that self reflection, I think, is really important, because if you go down this whole path thinking you want something and then you get there and it's not satisfying… Like, you put all this work into something that - maybe your “why” wasn't aligned from the beginning.
So I love that as a first step to take control of your career. So once you've identified the “why,” how do you get specific about what it is that you want, Amy?
Amy: We talked about this last season, but I think it's worth saying again. I'm a giant fan of setting SMART goals - Specific, Measurable…
Hayley: Achievable.
Amy: Realistic and Timely, yeah.
Hayley: So we talk about SMART goals. I sometimes find, as a visionary person, as a person with a lot of giant dreams, that my goals don't fit into the box of the SMART goals, necessarily. So what I often do in those situations is take the big goal and then, like, break them down into smaller goals that are SMART goals. Or take a goal that is a step along that bigger giant goal and work towards that.
So, I just wanted to stop down there, just ‘cause I know for a lot of people who are in this career, we're big dreamers. And so sometimes, going for the small things or the measurable things can be tricky. Like, oh, I don't necessarily have control over every aspect of, like, getting my show to Broadway, let's say. You know, that's a huge goal, and I can't just like - without the money or the resources or anything, I can't just decide tomorrow, like, “Ah, yes. I'm going to put my show up on Broadway.” It just, it doesn't work like that, right?
Amy: Yeah, no, totally. I think that's a really good point. I know about myself that, like, if I set a goal - which I do, I set these big-idea, big-picture goals. They're giant. They're - you know, I'm a… We're very ambitious girlies, Hayley. Like, we have a lot of big dreams, and I love that about us.
Hayley: Who, us?
Amy: No, no way. But when I set a big-picture goal like that, it can feel so overwhelming. Like, say I want to get my show on Broadway. Like, okay, great.
Hayley: How?
Amy: Right? Exactly. You can drown in a goal like that, right? And because it feels so overwhelming and you're not sure where to start, it's hard to know how to move the needle toward it. So yeah, I'm a big fan of breaking it down into… I think, for me, the Achievable and the Realistic in SMART are really good guiding lights for breaking down into manageable steps.
So like, for example, if the goal is to bring your show to Broadway - Okay, like, do we have a finished script and score that are the best quality they can be? If not, great! Let's set a goal around getting there, right? Let's have a reading. Let's get some feedback. Let's submit for some residencies or some development opportunities. And those are all more specific things that you do have more control over. You don't necessarily have control over whether you win a submission opportunity, but you do have control over whether you apply for it.
Hayley: Yeah, I agree. The other thing I want to say about when we're talking about getting specific about your goal is thinking about how you're going to feel, what your life will look like when you achieve that thing. So it's connected to the “why” and the “what” but like, “What is the life around that goal?” Especially if you have a really big-picture goal, what does your lifestyle look like around that?
And this is sort of getting into, like, woo woo manifesting. But the more specific that you can be about the goal itself and then everything around that goal, I think, the easier it actually is to achieve. Because the way that our minds work, whether or not you believe in the sort of like, “Thoughts become things” idea, I do think that it's pretty clear that the more that you're thinking about something, the more that your brain will sort of find opportunities to make those things happen. And that's a way that manifesting can happen without even the woo part of it.
If you're a person who loves the woo, go for it. I love you and you are amazing. I have trouble buying into the woo. So for me, it's practical for me to think about like, oh, psychologically, I'll be looking for more doors to open for this, because I will be more clear on what the life is around that thing and what it is about that thing that I want, and just getting super, super crystal clear on it .
Amy: I mean, I'm not a super woo person myself, but the more that I…
Hayley: But we love you, woo people, if you're there! We do, we respect it.
Amy: …but I gotta say, the more that I work on manifesting and the more that I see things coming back to me as a result of that work, the more I believe in it. Because it just, you can't argue with what you see in front of your eyes, you know?
Hayley: Confirmation bias is real, so make it work for you.
Amy: Well, exactly. Like, if you manifest and it happens, then maybe it's a coincidence, or maybe it happens because you manifested it. Either way, it happens. It's great. Better than not manifesting it and it not happening. So, yeah. Yeah, no, I think, I think that's a really good point.
I've done some really nice visualization exercises in groups that I've been in around - like, here's an example. Your show is at whatever end point - it's on Broadway, or the world premiere production, or it's, you know, being licensed and a school is doing it, or something like that. And just like, imagine, okay, you're sitting there in the audience, or during the rehearsal process. What does it feel like? What do you see? Like, a sensory kind of exploration of what achieving that goal will feel like in your body and will look like in your life. And it's exciting. And it does, it gets your brain moving and thinking about creative ways to move you closer to it, which is exciting.
(Musical transition)
Hayley: So we've talked about Step One, which is “why”. We've talked about Step Two, which is getting specific about what you want. So earlier, I mentioned the gap between what it is that you want and getting there. So, what are some next steps that folks can take?
Amy: For me, before I focus on the gap, I like to focus on the tools that I do have, like, the resources that I do have. It's usually a matter of making a big ol’ list. I'm a list person. I love a list. So if I have…
Hayley: List people, identify yourselves.
Amy: List people, unite! Come talk to me, we'll make lists together.
Hayley: I like lists too. We can all make lists. We can have a list party. Maybe that's a community event that we could do next. A list party.
Amy: That sounds amazing.
Hayley: Or maybe a PowerPoint party. I don't know. Now I'm getting excited about parties.
Amy: Excel party? Hey!
Hayley: Mmm, I do love a spreadsheet.
Amy: Anyway, when I have a goal, and I've identified my “why,” and I've gotten specific about what's the SMART goal that I'm working toward, then the next thing I like to do is make a big ol’ list of like, okay, here are all the resources that I'm gonna need or that will help me get closer to that goal. And then, once I've made the big list of all of them without judgment or thinking or like, “Oh, I don't have that, so I'll never reach my goal…” Which is a thing that comes up in my brain, and maybe it does for you too, listeners. Once I have that list, then I like to look at it and divide it into - like, okay, these are the resources I totally have and could call on today. These are the resources that I do not have and absolutely need to figure out a way to get. And these are the resources that are somewhere in the middle of that spectrum.
So yeah, resources for me can be things like areas of knowledge that I have around the goal. It can be people that I could either call on to help me toward the goal or that I could ask specific questions that I have to, like, gain knowledge that I don't have. It could be books or podcasts (hey!) or YouTube videos or, like, scripts and scores that I could consult of other shows if I'm working on a specific kind of a show. A class that I could take. But the resources are things that I do have now that can help me toward my goal.
And then for the list of things that I don't have, then it's sitting with those and being like, okay, how can I get those things? And for me, being a person with limited time and a limited budget, it also becomes like, okay, what are scrappy ways that I can get those things? Like, can I barter knowledge? Can I find a free resource? Can I check a book out of the library?
Hayley: Can I email someone and just ask them to do it?
Amy: Totally. Can I call in a favor from a friend? Yeah, all of those things. So, how do you think, Hayley, about identifying your resources and identifying what you need?
Hayley: That's a good question. I think this is a step that I sort of think about more fluidly. I think it's something that comes kind of naturally to me, so I sort of take it for granted. Honestly, you're giving me ideas, Amy.
I think about the people that I want to be a part of the family en route to that goal. That's something I think about. Resources being people, organizations, spaces, and - I mean this is in regards to, I'm thinking about my work as a writer, as a director. I think identifying my cheerleaders and the people who are aligned in terms of aesthetic, but also in terms of values, continues to be the most valuable piece of the resources puzzle for me.
Because you really can't do these things alone. As I've mentioned many times before, one of the things that I love the most about theatre is that it takes a community. It takes a village around your show. And so I start to think about, “Who might want to take on the responsibility of X,” you know? Who has a contact with a theatre who loves this theme or this value that your show represents, for example. I know we're sort of speaking a lot about, you know, getting your show to a certain place, because we're writers and that's often where our brains are at, but that's the example.
Amy: Yeah, but like, for an example for actors, it could be like, what kind of parts am I looking to go out for? What theatres are doing shows that have good parts for me? What theatres are working in a way that's aligned with my values? What directors, what producers… Like, who do I - same thing, who do I want to be working with?
Hayley: Yeah, and I think also, like, for actors, it could look like… This is an exercise I've often given in sort of coaching scenarios, but thinking about what products you sell well, if that makes sense. I sort of think about type differently than I think a lot of other people think about type. I think that there's, like, your brand of who you are and what your skill set is. And then there's the, like, how your skill set is manifested into the products that you're selling. And that's sort of how I think about type for actors.
And because theatre is an art form that has a lot of archetypes and things that come up again and again, thinking about those products as archetypes. So it's like, you know, maybe you play the little sister a lot. Okay, if you know you play the little sister a lot, looking at regional theatres, theatres around where you live… What are the shows that they're producing over and over again? What are the shows that are getting produced the most and where do you fit? Okay, do I have audition material that suits that character or that product in a variety of different styles?
So like, that's one example of how you might look at resources as an actor. It's like okay, how can I be savvy and be strategic about my approach? And then, like, create the resources so that when that opportunity to play the little sister in Bridges of Madison County arises, you're like, “Oh, perfect. I already… like, I have an outfit for this, I have a song for this, I have a slate for this, like, I know exactly what I'm doing.” So that's just another example.
Amy: I think that's really helpful. So we've identified our “why.” We've broken our goal down into smaller, manageable goals. We have identified our resources, the ones that we have and the ones that we need. And we're making a plan to get those ones we need in a way that works for our lives. So then the last step is: How do we keep ourselves accountable? How do we build systems and habits that will help us move the needle toward our goals? And how do we hold ourselves accountable for working within those systems? So how do you think about those things for yourself, Hayley?
Hayley: Again, I love friends. So for me, it's a lot of people. I am the type of writer who can generate a lot of material if there are other humans holding me accountable - meaning I have a writing session to show up to, I have a deadline for a development opportunity where there's going to be a room full of actors and creatives relying on me. I am really good at being accountable to others, and that's something I know about myself. And so I build systems for myself around that idea.
So part of the piece of building habits and systems of action and accountability that I think is important is knowing what makes you accountable, right? Some people are accountable to others, some people are accountable to themselves - you know, what are the things that actually hold you to something? For me, I find it way harder if the only consequence is going to be, like, I let myself down. But I have a really hard time, like I said, letting other people down.
For example, just to share a challenge, I find it easier to go after things when it comes to my writing, because I'm in such active collaboration with other people. But if I need to send an email to, like, ask for an assistant or associate job, I get so anxious about it. Because it's only for me. It's for me and my career, and if I don't do it, there's no consequence to anybody else but myself.
So one of the things that I do is I share my goals around my directing with my friends. So I'll say to Amy, for instance, I'll speak my goals to them, and I'll be like, “You know, I'd really love to do an associate job on a first-class production.” And then, I have said it out loud to another human. Now they're watching me, so it creates that social pressure, which I do respond to. So there's that. And also, my friends are amazing, so they can say, like, “Hey, I saw that this show is opening with this director who might be a great mentor for you. You should reach out to them.” And then that puts an additional layer of pressure on me. So I'm recruiting friends and collaborators to hold me accountable to what I really want, but also to then be eyes and ears within the industry to see opportunities for me that I might not have known about in the first place.
So that's what works well for me. Amy, do you have something to add to that - like, things that work well for you or other ways of thinking about this?
Amy: Yeah, I mean, that is definitely aligned for me too. I love having, like, dedicated accountability buddies. I'm working with a great one now. Her name is Kat. We keep each other accountable on our projects, and it is delightful. We check in every two weeks and by text in between. And it's just - for me, it's really helpful to literally just have a person who's asking me, like, “What did you get done toward your goals?” Who knows what my goals are and is checking in. And not even in a pushy or like, “Oh, you didn't do that? Shame on you!” kind of way. But just in a helpful way, of like, “What are you working on? What are your challenges? How can I help?”
I like programs. I just like deadlines. I just need a deadline, you know? And self-imposed deadlines will sometimes do it, but really, externally imposed deadlines are really where it's at for me.
Hayley: Yeah, and this might be challenging for you. So get together, you know?
Amy: Get friends.
Hayley: Get friends. Find other ways. Give yourselves rewards too, that's another really good one. This can be things like, “If I go to ten auditions in the span of a quarter, let's say… You know, I get to buy myself a new workout set, or I get to take myself on a little mini-date for dinner or something.” And it doesn't have to be money either. You know, you can do something that's just nice for yourself. I'm gonna watch my favorite show and take a rest day and, like, you know, eat candy. I don't know, whatever makes you happy. But find those rewards for yourself, because that also reinforces the habit loop in your brain that says, like, “When I do a thing that is good for myself, I also get rewarded for it.” And that helps, psychologically, to move toward your habits and your goals that you really want to achieve.
Amy: Yeah. A thing that I like to do is put it on the calendar. I like to…
Hayley: I love a calendar too.
Amy: Yeah, I'll time block. You know, I'm going to spend two hours working on this writing project. I also - like, if you are an actor who's trying to do ten auditions in a certain amount of time, identify the specific auditions you want to go to and put them on your calendar. Because if you put it on your calendar, it's an appointment, and you're more likely to do the prep work and to show up. I do that with submission opportunities. So calendars are great friends. So Hayley, is there anything else that you want to add on the topic of accountability and systems?
Hayley: I mean, I could talk more about this, to be honest, because this is something that I feel passionately about, that I talk to my friends about. Like I said at the beginning of this podcast, I'm a control enthusiast in a space where control can be fleeting. So I could keep going, but I think that we've covered a lot today.
(Musical transition)
Hayley: So Amy, I think that this is a good time for us to transition out of this topic and take a minute to uplift the people who inspire us. So do you have a Trailblazer of the Week for us?
Amy: Yeah, I absolutely do. I want to uplift this wonderful woman who I met very recently. She's a new theater friend, and her name is Tanya Birl-Torres, and Tanya is an up-and-coming director. I mean, she's more than up-and-coming, she's fabulous, and she's working on some really exciting projects. And what I love about Tanya is that she is so refreshingly grounded and down to earth, specifically about her career and her goals and what she's working toward. I actually don't know her through theatre at all. We work out together in this fabulous Strong Moms group that I do in my neighborhood.
Hayley: Come on, Strong Moms!
Amy: Yeah, Strong Moms!
Hayley: Getting a shout out on the podcast.
Amy: Absolutely! Led by the fabulous Jenna Haimes, who's another trailblazer who we'll talk about another time. But Tanya is, she's a force. She's a choreographer as well as a director. She is so strong and so thoughtful, as a mom in theatre, about the way that she balances her family and her career. It's clear that everything she does is from a place of strong values alignment and strong authenticity. And I really, really appreciate that about her. So Tanya, you are my Trailblazer of the Week. You rock!
Hayley: My Trailblazer of the Week this week is Rachel Chavkin…
Amy: Yes!
Hayley: …who's one of my favorite directors. And I had the pleasure, thanks to Annie Tipp, to get to go to this one-on-one conversation between the two of them at SDC this last week. And one of the things that I was so excited about that she was talking about was the way she blends her devised work in the downtown space with The Team and her commercial work.
And one of the things I love about Rachel is how humble she is about what she's learned. She talks a lot about the hubris that you need to sort of be able to be a successful director. But what she was showing, actually, in the conversation - as opposed to telling - was a lot of humility in the things that she's learned and then how she applies it to her practice moving forward. And how she takes the experiences of failure or challenges and makes different choices the next time. And I think that seeing folks like her sort of be so willing to admit their flaws, challenges, and how they're applying what they're learning is really exciting to me.
So I believe that SDC has put that YouTube video out. And I would definitely recommend checking it out. I mean, Annie's also brilliant in her own right. But the conversation is wonderful and worth a watch. Especially if you're a director, but I think just being a woman in theatre or a gender-expansive person in theatre, you'll appreciate it.
Amy: Cool! Thanks for that recommendation, Hayley. Before we run away, I want to hype you up today, ‘cause I know that you are juggling a whole lot in your life both personally and professionally. And I think that you, I think you're doing a really terrific job setting the boundaries you need - like, identifying what you need and asking for it and setting clear boundaries for yourself. And I'm sure that on your end, it doesn't feel like that's going super well every day. But from where I'm sitting, looking at it as an outsider, I'm totally clear on what you need and where your boundaries need to be right now. And I really appreciate that, because it helps me be a good friend to you and a good collaborator. So good on you. You rock, lady. You're a rock star.
Hayley: Thank you. I appreciate it. I want to hype you up because I think that you're really, like, putting your money where your mouth is right now. And I think that that's really awesome. Like, you are putting these goals out into the world and the things you want to do, and you're going out and you're doing them. And you're saying, “I want to show up like this,” and you're showing up like this. There's setting the intention, but then there's actually following through with action. And I think that a lot of times, people know how to talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk. And I think that you are doing a really great job of walking the walk right now, Amy. So I want to give you that.
Amy: Thank you! What a nice hype girl hour.
Hayley: Thank you. Yeah, this was cute. This was nice.
Amy: Yeah. It was so cute. Thanks for joining us, listeners!
Hayley: Thanks for joining us. We love you. Thanks for being here with us today. Go crush those goals. I know we've said it before, but I'll say it again. Let us know how they're going. Did this help you? I hope so.
Amy: Yeah, let us know what your goals are. We'll help you work toward them. Let's do it!
Hayley: Let's put our goals and our dreams out into the world and see how we can make those dreams a reality. Have a wonderful week, listeners. Bye!
Amy: Bye!
(Music)
Hayley: Thank you for listening to the Women & Theatre Podcast. We’re your hosts, Hayley Goldenberg…
Amy: …and Amy Andrews! If you like what you heard, subscribe and give us a 5-star review wherever you listen.
Hayley: You can also follow us on social @womenandtheatreproject to make sure you never miss an episode.
Amy: The music for this show was written by talented Women & Theatre community member Chloe Geller.
Hayley: Thanks again for listening, everyone. See you next time!
Amy: Bye!
